TW acknowledges why women don’t feel safe

These trans identifying males are men, and should not be in women's sports. It is up to them to organise an open category for themselves, or have 'trans' teams, whatever, they are not women.
These men are not in any way a woman, and it is not up to women to fix this for men either.

I am glad that the FA have decided to follow the law from the Supreme Court clarity of the Equality Act.

It is disgraceful that girl students are not allowed to compete as a girls team in female sports, in the US - California and Oregon, I think are the most reported? Just horrendous.

I think that whatever choices we make in our lives we come up against limitations as to what we can and can't do. If there were large numbers of trans people then it would be viable to have larger scale categories in sports but there aren't, however minority groups have rights for other sorts of protections and recognition.

valdavi

Oreo
The trans woman in the OP probably would be scared of competing against men as it would mean not winning.

That's sort of defeating Mollygo's argument in the OP, Oreo.

Yes, the OP was about a male saying he would be afraid to play alongside males because he wouldn’t feel safe.

However, the reason TIM want to compete in female sports is because it gives them a better chance of winning, which is what I presume Oreo means.

There are reports that men/boys are becoming demoralised by seeing males that they have left well behind them in men/boys competitions, going on to take medals for lesser achievements by competing in female sports.

Will that encourage them to support women in their demand for female only sports?
Or will it encourage more TIM to try and win medals by cheating?

It would probably be difficult to to create larger teams solely of trans people (such as football, cricket or rugby)on a local level but perhaps the trans team would be inclusive of others who wanted to play with them and make up a team that way?

On a National or international level I don’t see that it would be a problem to make a trans team. After all, those athletes with specific disabilities are restricted in numbers but they manage to make teams if others like themselves and compete against each other.

In athletics or other individual sports everyone could train together, but compete in the appropriate event with others like themselves.

Wyllow3
If there were large numbers of trans people then it would be viable to have larger scale categories in sports but there aren't . . .

We know that. We also learnt that competing against other trans is not necessarily what they would want.

So what do you see as a solution, that isn’t to the detriment of female competitors?

I don't see a solution unless there are enough numbers, I think finding alternative ways of doing whats meaningful for you in your sport - and that will differ for everyone just as we have to work round limitations in other ways in life.

What I don't understand is that we're constantly told that transpeople are a tiny percentage of the population and yet massive accommodations have to be made for them in terms of language, single sex spaces etc. Although to be fair it's almost exclusively accommodations for transwomen because transmen, being female, are still second class people.

In terms of sport I was never good enough to make any team selection, should my wanting to be a part of such a team have been accommodated at the expense of someone more able? Should I have been permitted to join the 'under 12s' even though an adult because I'd be able to compete and even win?

I don’t see why a trans team that is inclusive of others who are not trans, but who want to play in that team isn’t the solution.

I like that idea Lathyrus3 as in "friendlies". where people are engaging for the love of the sport not "who is best". At school we had mixed athletics except for running and it was more about achieving "personal bests".

As for "accommodating" a minority, looked at personally I don't have a problem using "she" for the transwomen that I respect, (ie are not using being trans as an excuse for bad behaviour), but accept that not everyone wants to do it.

They need to have their own categories competing against other transgenders. I can't see the problem. The fairest solution all round.

Yes I agree for competitive league and international sports, has to be that way, but hope that "friendlies" take place, as with other minorities, inclusion when possible.

Lathyrus3

I don’t see why a trans team that is inclusive of others who are not trans, but who want to play in that team isn’t the solution.

There’s an idea to start with.

It would enable more teams to be set up if they didn’t have to be completely trans.

A good test to see if that would work would be trans teams including men who would be happy with that rather than relying on there being TW in female teams.

Obviously having TW with the benefits of puberty would not be seen as being potentially harmful in men’s teams in the same way as TW playing in female teams.

The FAQ are likely to be
Will TW be willing to play in men’s teams?

Who would they play against?

Would there need to be a declaration of the ration of trans to non-trans?

How much damage to females by TW in the team or in the opposing team would be seen as acceptable?
e.g. A women’s football competition has been branded misogynist after it was won by a team featuring five transgender players, amid accusations one had broken an opponent’s leg in two places.

Oreo

The trans woman in the OP probably would be scared of competing against men as it would mean not winning.

That doesn't sound right Oreo
If they don't feel safe that isn't about winning.

made slight rule changes that whatever place he gets a girl will also get.

Making it seems like a favour being done to a girl in her own sport category.

Males in females' sports, if allowed at all, should get no placing. That would put them off a bit.

Wyllow3

I don't see a solution unless there are enough numbers, I think finding alternative ways of doing whats meaningful for you in your sport - and that will differ for everyone just as we have to work round limitations in other ways in life.

Exactly.

Not good enough? Too bad.
Treatment affected your performance? Too bad.
You're a man/boy who'd like everyone to pretend you're a woman/girl? Too bad.

Mollygo

In the midst of a flow of reports about failed males taking awards in female sports,
A 28 year old man who “came out as transgender” four years ago gives the perfect explanation for why males shouldn’t play in female sports.
He said
^What am I supposed to do? Go and play with the men? Because I don’t feel safe playing there.^

“Failed males”??

This is how I think it should work.

Womens teams are for those born female who identify as women.

Mens teams are for those born male who identify as male.

Trans teams give preference to those who have transitioned but are inclusive of anyone who wishes to join, These would be ncluded regardless of their birth sex, in line with the expressed belief that there is no such thing as biological sex.

I fancy entering Crufts next year. I identify as a Yorkshire terrier. That should be fine I suppose? Obviously I'd enter as a bitch. I know my rights.

Cossy
failed males
Men who fail to win competing against male (biological sex) competitors.
They see the way forward to be to enter female competitions in order to win, instead of training harder or accepting that others are going to win.

Lathyrus3
Trans teams give preference to those who have transitioned but are inclusive of anyone who wishes to join, These would be included regardless of their birth sex, in line with the expressed belief that there is no such thing as biological sex.

This is an excellent idea.
It has the added bonus of offering a chance of winning, to men other than TW who don’t achieve the top 3 places in men’s competitions.

NotSpaghetti

Oreo

The trans woman in the OP probably would be scared of competing against men as it would mean not winning.

That doesn't sound right Oreo
If they don't feel safe that isn't about winning.

It was my tongue in cheek comment on transwomen saying they wouldn’t feel safe playing in a mens team.
They fear comments no doubt but also they would be mediocre I expect so no trophy for them.
It’s a no brainer that they shouldn’t be competing against women so they need to either play in a mens team or compete against other men.Because they are biological men.

Aveline

I fancy entering Crufts next year. I identify as a Yorkshire terrier. That should be fine I suppose? Obviously I'd enter as a bitch. I know my rights.

😂
Are you tiny and hairy?

That isn't the same thing at all.
If someone doesn't feel safe that is still valid, whoever they are.

So what if they don’t feel ‘safe’ ? It’s no reason to ruin sport for women.

Oreo I feel tiny and hairy and that's all that matters.