TW acknowledges why women don’t feel safe

Of course Aveline I often feel like a super model so I get where you’re coming from😁 here,have a Bonio for good behaviour.🐶

We wouldn't collude with a daft woman wanting to enter Crufts so why collude with daft men wanting to enter women's facilities and sport? Full stop.

Oreo

So what if they don’t feel ‘safe’ ? It’s no reason to ruin sport for women.

Quite!

Allira

Oreo

So what if they don’t feel ‘safe’ ? It’s no reason to ruin sport for women.

Quite!

To add:

Knowing what it is like to feel unsafe, why would you want others to experience the same by your own actions?

TW are men and of course their needs have to come first. Women should know their place and not complain.
Hasn't this always been the way.

I do have difficulties "tarring all with same brush". After all, the men we know and meet are all not all bullies or putting us in our place. DS isn't at all like that, we must all know men across the spectrum, sure this applies to TW?

AGAA4

TW are men and of course their needs have to come first. Women should know their place and not complain.
Hasn't this always been the way.

AGAA4
Was that sarcasm?

Funnily enough, these men who claim they are women, don’t know their place and complain bitterly.

A trans friend of ours won’t go on public transport because she doesn’t feel safe. I don’t know what the answer is unless you have special teams for trans athletes but it might be difficult finding enough team members.

Yes Mollygo of course I don't believe all men or all TWs are bullies but there are some men and some TRAs who do want women to move over to get their own way.
TRAs expect women to accept them in their sports, changing rooms and other female only spaces and become aggressive if women say no.

nanna8

A trans friend of ours won’t go on public transport because she doesn’t feel safe. I don’t know what the answer is unless you have special teams for trans athletes but it might be difficult finding enough team members.

So is that a transman (she) or a transwoman (he) who doesn’t feel safe on public transport nanna8?
Why does your friend not feel safe on public transport?
The problem with finding enough team members should not be solved by putting males in female teams.
Even if all the other members of the team were happy with it, they would need to find teams who were willing to play against them.

Well, I’m going to keep pushing my solution.

The team is a trans team. If there are insufficient numbers of trans, the team is an inclusive one that will also accept those who are not trans.

They can be male or female since trans believe that there is no biological sex.

Lathyrus3

Well, I’m going to keep pushing my solution.

The team is a trans team. If there are insufficient numbers of trans, the team is an inclusive one that will also accept those who are not trans.

They can be male or female since trans believe that there is no biological sex.

If it works it would be a good idea.

Usually teams choose the players who will bring the best results for their team.

I’m picturing the composition of a rugby team of TW choosing the non-trans players they think will bring the best results.

Then I’m picturing the composition of a team who would be willing to play against them.
How would you picture the composition of either of those teams?

I think that if they have what is essentially 'gender dysphoria' they can still believe in biological sex. It's just awkward and isolating when they feel one way and look another

I think that any "mixed" team would not be in a competitive league situation anyway, rather informal "friendlies".

Also a lot of sport are not team sports. I recall from school that things like javelin throwing or high jump boys and girls participated and it was all about "personal bests" and enjoyment.

But it was a school that deliberately tried to make sports inclusive for those that weren't too good at it so they didn't feel 'failures'.

It's interesting in gyms that most people are interested in personal bests tho always some who wanted competitive performance elements.

Mollygo

nanna8

A trans friend of ours won’t go on public transport because she doesn’t feel safe. I don’t know what the answer is unless you have special teams for trans athletes but it might be difficult finding enough team members.

So is that a transman (she) or a transwoman (he) who doesn’t feel safe on public transport nanna8?
Why does your friend not feel safe on public transport?
The problem with finding enough team members should not be solved by putting males in female teams.
Even if all the other members of the team were happy with it, they would need to find teams who were willing to play against them.

She was born male, married and had 2 children who will now have nothing to do with her. She looks and dresses like a female except she is very,very tall. Exceptionally talented and a really lovely person but has had a couple of bad experiences on trains from Richard craniums shouting abuse at her and threatening her. Some years ago she had an operation and transitioned.

Mollygo

Lathyrus3

Well, I’m going to keep pushing my solution.

The team is a trans team. If there are insufficient numbers of trans, the team is an inclusive one that will also accept those who are not trans.

They can be male or female since trans believe that there is no biological sex.

If it works it would be a good idea.

Usually teams choose the players who will bring the best results for their team.

I’m picturing the composition of a rugby team of TW choosing the non-trans players they think will bring the best results.

Then I’m picturing the composition of a team who would be willing to play against them.
How would you picture the composition of either of those teams?

It would be up to the governing bodies of a sport to decide on criteria that would be applied in creating trans teams. Whether there should be a majority of players who had transitioned or whether, since biological sex does not exist in trans culture, the gender of any person (ie the lifestyle they have chosen) is actually relevant.

I don’t think it’s only about “friendlies” The inclusion of all genders in a trans team would mean there were enough teams to do that at a local level. But also enough trans teams to compete against each other at district, national and international level.

Also for individual sports like athletics.

People with specific disabilities who are also minority groups have been able to organise this, so it should be possible for trans as a minority group to do something similar.

People with gender dysmorphia acknowledge their biological sex but believe that mentally and emotionally they need to live as the opposite sex.

The trans movement states that biological sex is undefined and so there is no bar to anyone taking part in a trans team.

nanna8
Looks and dresses like a female.
We’ve had this discussion before.
What does it mean?

If a tall female has short hair, wears trousers, a shirt and a jacket and not wearing make-up does that mean she looks like and dresses like a man?
She still wouldn’t be one.

Why were they shouting abuse? Do Aussies Richard craniums usually shout abuse at exceptionally tall people?

Whatever the reason, I’m sorry your friend suffered that. Over here, it’s more likely to be biological women who are threatened or abused by TRA and those trans who are out to cause trouble.

Richard craniums

I was going to Google this but have just got it - eventually. I must be slow on the uptake today.

nanna glad to say that my friend who is trans wasn't rejected by family, but she did make the decision much later in life after much agonising. I'd hate to think of her being attacked, but she doesn't dress in a particularly attention seeking way.

I'd hate to think of TW being attacked even if they did dress in an attention-seeking way. They shouldn't have to adapt their dress-style to be safe.

I agree of course, I suppose its a matter of individual character as to how we all dress.

Except Caitlyn Jenner really resented her then spouse, Kris, when she did not want to stay married to a woman. Kris told Caitlyn that she would support her but would not stay married.

valdavi

I'd hate to think of TW being attacked even if they did dress in an attention-seeking way. They shouldn't have to adapt their dress-style to be safe.

I hate to think of anyone being attacked, but women have frequently been attacked by men over what they wear.
They shouldn’t have to adapt their dress-style to be safe, but the way they dress is often used as an excuse for why they were attacked.

Freshair

I think that if they have what is essentially 'gender dysphoria' they can still believe in biological sex. It's just awkward and isolating when they feel one way and look another

Am sure it must be, and not an easy decision to make but this can’t be put ‘above’ women’s rights in any way.Sport is or should be about biological sex as the male body will always be superior in strength and muscle and power.

Oh for goodness sake. My friend identifies as a female and has changed her name to a female name. Any other information required ? She dresses as a female and she looks quite feminine but not in a flashy or ostentatious way. However, she does stand out and there are people here who have problems with that. We don’t get eccentric people here on the whole, we are a nation of conformers and any one a bit ‘different’ tends to get ridiculed. Unlike the perfect world where some seem to exist. Lucky people.