Should wearing a burqa be banned in the UK?

TerriBull 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

My DDs best friend was a Muslim girl. She always wore a head covering and her father wouldn't allow her to go to parties or even come for tea at our house.
DD was invited for tea at her house though. I felt sorry for her as she missed out on all the fun that other teens took for granted.
Years later she came to DDs wedding and I was pleased to see her beautiful hair for the first time and wearing quite a short dress. She had broken free of her father's dominance.

lafergar

Why do people persist with this myth that women who are Muslims are not able to think for themselves?

Maybe because there are posters on here, myself included who have Muslim friends, and know how they feel and what they have to do…

My Muslim friend from Bangladesh is quite ratty about 'those women who cover themselves up'. It's one thing in a dusty middle eastern country but ridiculous in other countries. She actually refused to enter into conversation with one we met on a flight.

Watching Simon Reeve in Denmark.
They have banned full face coverings.
They have quite forceful ways of getting non-westerns to integrate including not allowing areas which only contain one group of people to exist. Even to the extent of moving people out of that area.
They offer up to £26,000 to would-be immigrants to return to their home country.
I wonder how many if those actually go back.

AGAA4

My DDs best friend was a Muslim girl. She always wore a head covering and her father wouldn't allow her to go to parties or even come for tea at our house.
DD was invited for tea at her house though. I felt sorry for her as she missed out on all the fun that other teens took for granted.
Years later she came to DDs wedding and I was pleased to see her beautiful hair for the first time and wearing quite a short dress. She had broken free of her father's dominance.

Any extremism in religion or culture which means women are repressed should be resisted in liberal, democratic countries.

Not just Islam but other religions too.

Wish we were doing what Denmark is, but we won't.
Glad that girl broke away from her repressive father and lives the life she wants to. With education things will improve I think but I feel for all those girls and women kept down..

I have no problems whatsoever with head coverings but face coverings in this day and age ? No. A mark of oppression as far as I’m concerned.

Mollygo

Watching Simon Reeve in Denmark.
They have banned full face coverings.
They have quite forceful ways of getting non-westerns to integrate including not allowing areas which only contain one group of people to exist. Even to the extent of moving people out of that area.
They offer up to £26,000 to would-be immigrants to return to their home country.
I wonder how many if those actually go back.

Ooh - what was the name and channel of that programme please? I'd like to check it out.....

I "theenk" Denmark is one of the countries too where people are given a certain amount of time to learn the language? - ie believe it's 2 years?

It was called Scandinavia with Simon Reeve. A three program series, and this was the last episode. I can’t remember what it was on, but it’s on iPlayer.

Mollygo

Watching Simon Reeve in Denmark.
They have banned full face coverings.
They have quite forceful ways of getting non-westerns to integrate including not allowing areas which only contain one group of people to exist. Even to the extent of moving people out of that area.
They offer up to £26,000 to would-be immigrants to return to their home country.
I wonder how many if those actually go back.

This series has such an interesting take on this issue which concerns all western countries to some extent. I think plenty of people here would have some regard for the Danish way of trying to encourage integration.

Mollygo

Watching Simon Reeve in Denmark.
They have banned full face coverings.
They have quite forceful ways of getting non-westerns to integrate including not allowing areas which only contain one group of people to exist. Even to the extent of moving people out of that area.
They offer up to £26,000 to would-be immigrants to return to their home country.
I wonder how many if those actually go back.

They have quite forceful ways of getting non-westerns to integrate including not allowing areas which only contain one group of people to exist. Even to the extent of moving people out of that area.

The 'ghettoised' immigrant areas in the UK possibly thrive because poorer immigrants, or those from poorer countries, can't afford to live in more affluent zones.

Denmark, generally, is a more economically equal society.

They offer up to £26,000 to would-be immigrants to return to their home country.
I wonder how many if those actually go back.

It would be interesting to know. I think for many people, their homeland is dear to them so I'm guessing some would take up the offer.

I saw a programme some time ago where refugees from war-torn countries who fled to the nearest safe country were interviewed, most said they wanted to return to their homeland as soon as it was safe to do so. Obviously their living conditions in their host country were pretty basic, nevertheless when asked, they didn't seem keen to move further away. This sentiment is probably stronger in the older generation.

I watched the programme. It was on BBC2 last night.

I think Denmark has the right idea. Sort out the immigrants they already have and don’t allow any more in. I see nothing wrong at all in that.

Do as much as possible to get people to integrate by balancing up the communities. We have plenty of areas in this country where outsiders dare not go, even the Police.
Ban the Burka.
Make people learn the Danish language and if they don’t, stop any benefits.
Offer them incentives to return to their homeland.

They all seem sensible ideas to me.

We have plenty of areas in this country where outsiders dare not go, even the Police.

Really? Please tell me where they are, so I can keep safe.

Dickens
The 'ghettoised' immigrant areas in the UK possibly thrive because poorer immigrants, or those from poorer countries, can't afford to live in more affluent zones.

That was why they moved them. They spread out particularly the ‘non-western people, among the ‘more affluent’ zones and refurbished the ‘ghettoised’ zones presumably so that ‘more affluent’ people who were not ‘non-western’ would move there.

Hard on those who were moved.
Simon interviewed one man who moved to Denmark in 1975 who was upset about it, but Denmark saw it as an incentive to fit in with the Danish ethos and, if I remember rightly, to improve the family chances.
Certainly the man’s children had done well, though I can’t recall the jobs he mentioned.

It is hard when you’re moved like that.

It didn’t just happen in Denmark in the past, and not on the basis of ‘non-western’.

Years ago I taught in Birkenhead after we moved out of Liverpool. The council “rehoused” people out of the poorer areas into ‘nicer’ areas.
It was one of the complaints I heard from some rehoused parents that they didn’t like their new neighbours/neighbourhood.

Mollygo. I too would have liked to have seen where the man and family/wife were moved to. The adult children probably no longer lived at home. He mentioned they were in professional occupations and most likely were living elsewhere...maybe married.

So the man and wife possibly no longer needed a large appartment. It must have been a rented flat and as they were involuntarily moved, the flat was part of Denmarks social housing. I dont know anything about Denmarks social housing am only supposing. So possibly the flat is now home to a larger family which would seem a better use of housing stock.
Simon's programme certainly was an education. Well presented and I would like to see a more in depth view of Europe's solutions to immigration and integration. Paris has problems with their ghettoised suburbs. And no doubt other capitals as well. Denmark seems more thoughtful and less knee jeek reactions. Sweden seems to have big drug problems. Denmark is probably helped by its small size.

I'm not sure about relocating people out of areas where they feel safe and perhaps comfortable, with others around them.

Integration, yes, but perhaps by encouragement such as free lessons in Danish, Danish culture and meeting up with Danish people in groups and societies.
Their children will go to school and integrate in that way as long as the schools are not just located in the immigrant areas.

Allira
I'm not sure about relocating people out of areas where they feel safe and perhaps comfortable, with others around them.

That’s exactly the point the relocated Birkenhead parents made.
On the other hand, in Liverpool, the mothers who brought their children to translate, or sat mute next to their husbands at parent teacher meetings, lived in areas where they only ever spoke to each other, so knew little English.

It’s a social experiment by Denmark and will take time to see if it works well.

lafergar

We have plenty of areas in this country where outsiders dare not go, even the Police.

Really? Please tell me where they are, so I can keep safe.

I have to say that I have been told, purely anecdotally, that where I live there are local families who dominate in some areas, sometimes acting outside the law, who the police will not challenge. It's not an immigrant based phenomenon, these are white British.

OTOH, they don't impinge on most people's everyday life and there are certainly no 'no go' areas.

lafergar

We have plenty of areas in this country where outsiders dare not go, even the Police.

Really? Please tell me where they are, so I can keep safe.

I know one such place, 10 minutes from me.

lafergar

We have plenty of areas in this country where outsiders dare not go, even the Police.

Really? Please tell me where they are, so I can keep safe.

Please tell you where they are?

Better to watch the news.
Keep up to date with your local area WhatsApp group.
Even our city centre, or a local park where I often walk during the day which have been fairly safe since we moved here a long time ago, now generate police reports advising people to avoid x-area because of violence or large groups of youths.
I was used to being told to avoid certain areas when I lived in Liverpool, but didn’t expect it here.

GrannyGravy13

lafergar

We have plenty of areas in this country where outsiders dare not go, even the Police.

Really? Please tell me where they are, so I can keep safe.

I know one such place, 10 minutes from me.

Yes, there are such places; sometimes they manage to turn themselves around.

A place in a city not far from me was known for its gang violence 40 years ago, including guns, substance abuse, even reports of thefts from cars stuck at traffic lights.

It has improved there over the years with strong policing and good community leaders, now a vibrant and cosmopolitan area.

lafergar

We have plenty of areas in this country where outsiders dare not go, even the Police.

Really? Please tell me where they are, so I can keep safe.

Where do you live, so that we can investigate and advise.

Obviously I don't mean precisely!! 😀
But, a general area would be helpful as it's rather like asking how long is a piece of string.

Any form of face-covering should be banned in places accessible to the public in the interests of security. That should include items of clothing and masks of all kinds unless mandated for preventing disease.