Should wearing a burqa be banned in the UK?

I agree the wave of immigration from the Indian sub continent back in the 70s the women didn't wear the burka. In fact it was viewed as an anomoly associated with women, often visiting from the Middle East when they were in London. New wave of immigration from places such as Somalia have embedded the more draconian aspects of Islam. A Malaysian Muslim mum down at the school gates when our children were young would be wearing the shortest of shorts on hot days. The Islamic religion encompasses many different aspects to it, like Christianity I guess.

TerriBull Sadly, today, a Malaysian Musli mum would be wearing a headscarf and 'modest dress'. So different from Malaya when I ived there as a child.

I do remember travelling from Singapore to Malacca and seeing headscarved young girls that was early 80s. Maybe I should have added Malaysian mother I knew was married to a westerner.

Some of us will have viewed photos of women in Afghanistan and Iran in the '70s going to work in blouses and skirts, before the clock was turned back to the Middle ages.

Oh yes - I had a woman Iran friend until she moved - she'd lived through those days of freedoms, she was an artist and although married, westernised , demonstrations out n the streets..... In fact he was the one with difficulties really). But it was partly a class and urban/rural divide. It brings home to me not just how different it is in different countries, but how times change too. Some seem to go "back" but Saudi women are going "forward". A Yemeni woman I met (student) - middle class family- most of the family have got out and are westernised too (dreadful, awful war there).

In the USA - knew this but needed to confirm -

"Some Christian denominations, particularly those within the conservative Anabaptist, Holiness Pentecostal, and Reformed/Presbyterian traditions, have specific dress codes for women, emphasising modesty and simplicity.

These codes often include requirements for ankle-length skirts or dresses, blouses up to the collar, and head coverings.

Sound familiar?

I find Muslim women wearing niqabs quite intimidating especially in black. Black is such an oppressive colour.

I do not see the niqab/burqa as an expression of faith, more an expression of the culture of the country she came from.

As to whether burqa should be banned, I am not sure. What I like most about living in the UK is you can do whatever you like, wear whatever you fancy, even becomes an eccentric and there is no pressure from society to conform.

A man should never tell a woman what she should or should not wear.

Many years ago, I went to the office and my boss approached me and said, out of the blue, that he would not be please at all if I were to start wearing the headscarf at work. Not that I would, I am not that religious.

All I said to him was my English husband never tells me what I should or should not wear, so I am going to wear what I want to wear.

This happened a long time ago during the London bombing. Someone from our office died during the bombing. Unfortunately, I am guilty by association.

Thats dreadful and so sad, SporeRB

SporeRB

I find Muslim women wearing niqabs quite intimidating especially in black. Black is such an oppressive colour.

I do not see the niqab/burqa as an expression of faith, more an expression of the culture of the country she came from.

As to whether burqa should be banned, I am not sure. What I like most about living in the UK is you can do whatever you like, wear whatever you fancy, even becomes an eccentric and there is no pressure from society to conform.

A man should never tell a woman what she should or should not wear.

Many years ago, I went to the office and my boss approached me and said, out of the blue, that he would not be please at all if I were to start wearing the headscarf at work. Not that I would, I am not that religious.

All I said to him was my English husband never tells me what I should or should not wear, so I am going to wear what I want to wear.

This happened a long time ago during the London bombing. Someone from our office died during the bombing. Unfortunately, I am guilty by association.

I was once in a hospital car park. A woman dressed all in black wearing a birqa came sweeping across the tarmac at me, making me a little nervous.
As she approached she waved a parking permit and said there was an hour left on it if I wanted to use it!
I thanked her for her kindness and learned a very important lesson...

Teazel2

When I go to other countries I respect their customs. The same should apply here. This taken from an article in the Daily Telegraph:

Our culture, rooted in Judeo-Christian values, Enlightenment reason and the hard won principle of sexual equality, has made this country one of the most tolerant and liberal on earth. But tolerance cannot mean indifference. A society that tolerates everything, even its own erosion, will not survive.

there is a longer article in today’s Daily Telegraph for those interested.

Exactly.

I dislike the term modest when applied to clothing. It’s judgemental - what are people who do not wear ‘modest’ clothing? The antonyms of modest are not terms most women would consider complimentary.

I am also conflicted about a ban on burkas. It goes against the UK liberal stance on how we live our lives but on the other hand, a burka is a restriction on others being able to know your identity. We are generally suspicious of people wearing face-covering balaclavas or full-visor motorcycle helmets (when not riding a motorcycle). The masks we were told to wear during Covid put up a barrier between people, not being able to instantly recognise friends, isolating those who lip read and had a dreadful effect on some children, who only saw unmasked faces in their homes.

Where I live it is not common to see women in full face covering but there is one person I see regularly on a school run. She wears the eye slit type of covering plus a pair of massive headphones over the top, and I must admit, I do feel sorry for her wee little boy, who can neither see his mum properly nor easily attract her attention.

Still, though, banning seems drastic and un-British.

Thank you Teazel2 for posting this extract from the Daily Telegraph, with which I agree. Will try to read the whole article.

woodenspoon

I think what value do these people bring to the UK? Nothing as far as I can see. Just problems.

What a truly appalling thing to say!!

I was recently in a physiotherapy class with a woman in a burqa (no facecovering) and physio found it very hard to tell whether she could manage the exercises or not.
There is a family in our local primary school whose daughters wear knitted headcoverings and long clothes even in high summer, it must be very difficult for them to do PE in them.
I did know a young woman of around 18 in the 1990's who suddenly started to come into her classes in a burqa, she told me that she had decided to do it of her own accord. She had been born and educated here and her family were upper middle class (her father was a doctor) and none of them wore a burqa so she had not been pushed into doing it.

GrannyGravy13

Just thought the posters on this thread should know that FriedGreenTomatoes2 has been banned from GN.as well as having her post deleted.

Oh! She must have posted something unacceptable, I didn’t see it!

There are middle east countries where, when western females visit cover their head "out of respect". Isn't that acknowledging the customs of a country so stirring it a bit, why is the burka worn and seemingly accepted here in UK. as not a customary form of dress.I am for faces being seen.

Agree

I do not agree with anyone being banned, threads should be removed if someone is upset and reports it, and no, before you all leap on me, it wasn’t me who reported her comment, I never even got to read it.

IMO, freedom of speech comes with great responsibility.

Like it or not, there are often very racist undertones to some posts.

Whilst I do emphasise with FGT, have we thought that many nationalities, including Muslims, belong to this site and whether we agree, or like it, we now live in a multi cultural country, I for one feel we are richer for this.

Cossy I didn't see FGTs post either but as I said earlier it would be better if people would say they have reported a post and why or at least challenge the offensive post.
This would stop people wondering who had reported and speculating.

Allsorts

If people want to live here but wear a Burkha find another country. We have fought hard for freedom, to be encased in a heavy outfit looking out of a visor is the opposite of that. It is oppression. Anyone who thinks it is OK, try it for a week preferably in a heatwave, on and off buses going to work etc, and if you enjoy it come back ant tell us why.

I agree. When did this all start anyway? I had never heard the words niqab, hijab or burka when I was younger. It’s not something we should even be discussing as women shouldn’t be told by men what to wear. When in Rome.

Cossy

I do not agree with anyone being banned, threads should be removed if someone is upset and reports it, and no, before you all leap on me, it wasn’t me who reported her comment, I never even got to read it.

IMO, freedom of speech comes with great responsibility.

Like it or not, there are often very racist undertones to some posts.

Whilst I do emphasise with FGT, have we thought that many nationalities, including Muslims, belong to this site and whether we agree, or like it, we now live in a multi cultural country, I for one feel we are richer for this.

None of the Muslim women I know personally wear a burqa, not even a head covering.

It's more a cultural thing than religious and I wonder if they and their husbands are more progressive?

Why do people persist with this myth that women who are Muslims are not able to think for themselves?

They can.
That's why some do not wear a head covering. However, it would be interesting to know if some women who do wear a burqa are being controlled or coerced by their men folk or if it is from freedom of choice.

We just don't know, do we.

lafergar

Why do people persist with this myth that women who are Muslims are not able to think for themselves?

They can obviously think for themselves. Some choose not to wear a head covering. Some choose to wear a head covering.
What we don’t know/will never know is whether some of them choose to wear a head covering because they are in a coercive relationship. That sort of choice happens to women of all races, colours and creeds.

lafergar

Why do people persist with this myth that women who are Muslims are not able to think for themselves?

It’s ridiculous!

I worked with many Muslims, some wore a head covering, many different. I also encountered mixed marriages, all of which seemed to work very well.

Why would anyone think that Muslim women can't think themselves There's a difference between living the life of an independent, emancipated woman as some are free to do, and living in a society where women must adhere to a load of man made strictures imposed on them by a patriarchal theocracy. It's been said an infinitum on this thread, the onlooker cannot possibly know if the woman beneath the swathes of material is wearing the burka of her own volition or coerced.