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Should wearing a burqa be banned in the UK?

(312 Posts)
growstuff Fri 06-Jun-25 09:08:19

What do posters think?

Allira Fri 06-Jun-25 22:28:05

Dickens

Sarnia

No. It isn't a religious requirement as far as I know. It's purpose seems to be displaying the subservience of women who wear them.

As far as I am aware, the Koran does not, explicitly, demand that women are completely covered in this way, but calls for both men and women to be covered 'modestly'.

I once saw a family group in Russel Square, London, where the women were all wearing the niqab and the loose, black, abaya, whereas the men (apart from one elder family member) were wearing tight jeans and t-shirts.

So clearly, the demand for 'modesty' didn't apply to them.

Should we care? I don't know. But it's so alien to our own culture. And, as a feminist of sorts, this subservience of women is something I find hard to accept.

Of course, someone will tell me possibly that the women might choose to dress like that. Maybe they do. But, what if they don't?

Women fight for equality, not to be treated as second-class citizens, not to be coerced by men into subservience - yet multi-culturalism demands that we make exceptions. And this, I think, is what causes problems, the problem of accepting multi-culturalism - where all cultures are supposedly equal, when clearly they aren't. At least, not if the women are being forced to wear a garment they would rather not wear.

I don't care about the men wearing western casual dress - but the hypocrisy of such men is worrying. I once had an online debate with a Muslim male about western culture. It wasn't so much what he said, but his attitude towards me, as a female with an opinion was quite unpleasant, to say the least, particularly as the conversation started quite civilly. It ended with him suggesting that eventually western women would be forced to come to heel (for want of a better way of expressing it).

... these are the issues that are not addressed, and doing so is likely to be met with accusations of bigotry. I don't know how many women dress 'modestly' either to please their men or because it's demanded of them - maybe they are a minority, there's no way of knowing. If they are doing so by choice, then that's their choice, so who's to say they should be banned from wearing the garment? Although I do agree that covering the face in institutions like nurseries, schools, etc, should be. And - do the women object? If they work in these institutions, probably not.

As far as I am aware, the Koran does not, explicitly, demand that women are completely covered in this way

It does not.

It is subjugation of women by men and not a religious requirement.

Allsorts Fri 06-Jun-25 22:29:07

Hideous things. Note the men go around nice and cool often in western dress. how do you know enjoy in there.

Wyllow3 Fri 06-Jun-25 22:30:47

woodenspoon

The person who reported FGT should be utterly ashamed of themselves. At a time when most other posters are supporting her, through her issues, some cruel person does this. It’s not difficult to work out who this could be either. Shame on you.

Is an inquisition really the right thing to start? Been down this road before where someone "demands" to know and has posters jumping to say it wasn't me?

I was in the process of replying to her and quote the deleted post so it wasn't me but like many others you might"suspect" I do know about whats going on for her and sad that GN didn't take this on board.

I'd would just say however having seen the post sheer coincidence I very, very much doubt it was for that as it repeats POV already expressed.

Can we stay with sympathy for the situation as its complex and wish her well or write to GN instead of an inquisition?

Allira Fri 06-Jun-25 22:32:09

lafergar

CariadAgain

More "How do they actually manage to 'live their lives' whilst wearing a "shroud"? "

How do they eat? How do they sneeze? How do they lip-read someone else wearing one?

There may be a few that wear them by genuine choice - but I'd be willing to bet most of the wearers of them are doing so "by quiet force". As in I've come to the conclusion many people/maybe most people just go through life doing what is easiest not to be a "tall poppy that gets noticed - and some might cut them down". So if their relatives/husband/friends are wearing this - then I wouldnt be at all surprised if a lot of the wearers are only wearing them because of cultural pressure - rather than by informed thought-out personal choice.

Most people like to conform to what they see as "societal norms". The last 5 years were an object lesson for all of us on that front...

I suppose you could ask somebody who wears one?

The people I know tend to throw it on for the school run and put it on a peg as soon as they come home.

Do you yourself wear a burqa, lafergar?
You do seem to know a lot about wearing burqa so I did wonder.

If you do, what is your perspective on this? If, as you say, it is thrown on casually, is it because of strict religious beliefs or just because it's a habit? (No pun intended.)

Wyllow3 Fri 06-Jun-25 22:35:14

Allsorts

Hideous things. Note the men go around nice and cool often in western dress. how do you know enjoy in there.

Sometimes in very hot climates both men and women wear loose robes and cover their heads. We wear tents and a sun hat in summer! Surely it depends on the fabric and what you wear underneath?

Allira Fri 06-Jun-25 22:37:02

Wyllow3

woodenspoon

The person who reported FGT should be utterly ashamed of themselves. At a time when most other posters are supporting her, through her issues, some cruel person does this. It’s not difficult to work out who this could be either. Shame on you.

Is an inquisition really the right thing to start? Been down this road before where someone "demands" to know and has posters jumping to say it wasn't me?

I was in the process of replying to her and quote the deleted post so it wasn't me but like many others you might"suspect" I do know about whats going on for her and sad that GN didn't take this on board.

I'd would just say however having seen the post sheer coincidence I very, very much doubt it was for that as it repeats POV already expressed.

Can we stay with sympathy for the situation as its complex and wish her well or write to GN instead of an inquisition?

I missed what FGT posted so can't judge and I don't think there is an inquisition at all or a list of suspects.

It's rather sad that posters who are having a bad time in their private lives have been banned. FGT is not the only one, another poster was banned for actually posting her problems on the Estrangement Threads, unbelievably! Just when she needed support.

Lathyrus3 Fri 06-Jun-25 22:43:28

I’ve never worn a burqa but lived next door to someone who did. It was easy to it on. It just went straight over the top, in one piece, of whatever she was wearing indoors, before she went out.

She said it was less trouble than anything else.

It was expected of her. It didn’t seem to oppress her but her expectations of her life were different to mine. What I would have chafed against made her feel secure🤔

Rosie51 Fri 06-Jun-25 22:47:51

I haven't seen any 'demands' to know who reported FGT's deleted post, but surely anyone who reports a post should be mature enough to own it? I didn't see the post so will make no comment on its content, but I am aware that sometimes those who portray themselves as one of the 'kind ones' can be quite cruel and vindictive to those that have a different opinion. I'm saddened that she's lost her support from GN posters as a result.

Back on the subject of the thread I don't believe our government would ban the burqa entirely and neither should they, but I do think it should be forbidden in all areas where for safety, justice and meaningful interaction (medical services, social services, education etc) it would be a barrier, so I'd include the niqab in that as well.

Mollygo Fri 06-Jun-25 23:43:53

GrannyGravy13

Just thought the posters on this thread should know that FriedGreenTomatoes2 has been banned from GN.as well as having her post deleted.

I didn’t see the post, but why get FGT2 banned?
Presumably the reporter feels a great sense of justification, but it seems unkind.

Dickens Sat 07-Jun-25 00:01:24

Wyllow3

"It ended with him suggesting that eventually western women would be forced to come to heel"

We have men in the West like him think Andrew Tate, think of some of the traditional Christian Sects in the USA? Just saying its not unique.

... yes, I'm aware of Andrew Tate (and the accusations against him and his brother), the 'Red Pill', incel culture, etc, etc, also the traditional 'Christian' attitude towards women - and their place in society. And although I've not read all postings on these matters, I'm pretty sure most on GN roundly condemn this culture that seeks to put women 'back in their lane'.

But I'm addressing the topic of the original post and am asking why we should make an exception for a culture or religion that seeks to do something similar?

Tate justifies himself by saying that he's a realist, the so-called traditional Right Wing Christian fundamentalist, similarly believe that women's role is subservient.

... and we argue against both. So again, why make an exception for a culture that demands (on those occasions where it does) that women cover themselves from head to toe?

FWIW I'm not in favour of an outright ban on the burka.

Nannee49 Sat 07-Jun-25 06:17:24

The whole massive topic of cultural differences needs airing. As a society with real, hard won freedoms, we do need to examine any cultural practices which cause hurt, harm, distress, worse.
It's all very well to say "most burka wearers I know just pop it on for the school run" without examining what would happen if they didn't pop it on.
We all have to get along with mutual respect but it can't flow all one way. If the burka has no religious significance which needs to be respected then it is just another cultural practice hypocritically hiding behind the sanctity of a creed.
If it was banned would it be an act of freedom for women chafing under the oppression of it?

Whiff Sat 07-Jun-25 07:12:11

If you wear a burqa how do you get a passport,bus pass ,blue badge if you need one ? Just wondered as you need to show your face .

lafergar Sat 07-Jun-25 07:25:19

I don't wear a burqa because I'm not Muslim.

I know a little about people who wear them from my time in community projects.

I did not report anybody.

Have a pleasant weekend.

Allsorts Sat 07-Jun-25 07:27:22

If people want to live here but wear a Burkha find another country. We have fought hard for freedom, to be encased in a heavy outfit looking out of a visor is the opposite of that. It is oppression. Anyone who thinks it is OK, try it for a week preferably in a heatwave, on and off buses going to work etc, and if you enjoy it come back ant tell us why.

BlueBelle Sat 07-Jun-25 07:27:58

It’s such a difficult subject which I keep changing my mind about I personally see it as a legitimate way to freeing women from male dominance but the reverse is what right do we have to start banning this that or the other, if people choose to live here is it right to set such harsh perimeters on their personal choice of clothes, then I go back to, but is it their personal choice or are they being kept prisoner in their clothes by males who seem to wear what they want
I m really flip flopping about this ….would it save some women as if there was a ban the men who were wanting to live here would have to conform or stay away, however that then seems totally unfair to ban something that is purported to be a religious rule for them when we are open to other religious needs

I love the fact that as a country we are open to all who want to live or visit here regardless of religion or ethnicity so where does that leave me !!

CariadAgain Sat 07-Jun-25 07:39:48

Wyllow3

Allsorts

Hideous things. Note the men go around nice and cool often in western dress. how do you know enjoy in there.

Sometimes in very hot climates both men and women wear loose robes and cover their heads. We wear tents and a sun hat in summer! Surely it depends on the fabric and what you wear underneath?

Yep....but as you said it was "in very hot climate". We've not got that in this country. What we have here is you're lucky if you're warm enough and we all gasp for a bit of nice sunny weather when we get the chance of it. Add in the rain and the wind......

I'm British - but I wear long loose clothing and a loose scarf on my head if on holiday in a hot country. Cue for standing joke from locals spotting me on holiday in Turkey of "You Turkish woman?? - you dress like that". Yep....I will - in a hot country - because long/loose/flowy and a headscarf is the practical option imo.

In our country - no chance of wanting my clothes to trail in all the rain and puddles and blow around in the wind and generally be a "flow-y" nuisance to me.

"What you wear underneath" - if you're southern English (as I am) you don't want to wear more clothing than is needed for decency. So it's what you need to wear to cover-up and be warm enough and add an extra layer or two if you're someplace else in Britain with worse weather than you're used to.

CariadAgain Sat 07-Jun-25 07:46:36

Allsorts

If people want to live here but wear a Burkha find another country. We have fought hard for freedom, to be encased in a heavy outfit looking out of a visor is the opposite of that. It is oppression. Anyone who thinks it is OK, try it for a week preferably in a heatwave, on and off buses going to work etc, and if you enjoy it come back ant tell us why.

LOL.

I agree with you on that one - 101%.

There was much hilarity at an event I was at years before all this started up in Britain. One of the men had bought a burka whilst on holiday in Afghanistan and brought it with him to this. Cue for most of us couldnt resist trying it on and trying to move in it.

I tried to walk across the room in it - and seeing through that grill thing across the eyes made it very difficult to see where I was going and just the sheer amount of flowing material felt like it was trying to trip me up. None of us managed more than a few steps in it before we ripped it off and the next person tried it out. Thankfully for these Middle Eastern women that go walking round in their type of clothing here they don't usually have that eye grill thing to contend with. The only plus point is I guess it would be easy to hide some food one was eating underneath it throughout all 12 months of the year if need be if sneaking a bar of chocolate ...

Aveline Sat 07-Jun-25 07:52:47

Shared on twitter

BlueBelle Sat 07-Jun-25 07:53:42

It’s not funny Carriad and not pleasant to make a joke of someone else’s traditions

HelterSkelter1 Sat 07-Jun-25 08:07:09

Banning the burqua full stop would result in many women not being "allowed" out of the house at all.
But it should be banned in situations where your face/identity needs to be seen. Collecting children from nursery being one that would be crucial as well as all the bank, airport security etc etc places.

CariadAgain Sat 07-Jun-25 08:23:12

BlueBelle

It’s not funny Carriad and not pleasant to make a joke of someone else’s traditions

We were trying out that outfit in a spirit of genuine enquiry - ie as to how people managed/could they manage at all to "live a life" in them. Cue for one after another of us all deciding we couldnt do so. This was an intelligent and socially-conscious group of people - not a group of "lads" or "lad-esses". Just a socially conscious gathering in a morning for the purposes of trading - and he'd brought it along to see if any of us wanted to trade to get it - and we didnt.

Wyllow3 Sat 07-Jun-25 08:26:26

I'm not surprised we have no - or few of our fellow citizens who are Muslim on GN. 😡

BlueBelle Sat 07-Jun-25 08:34:24

Indeed Wyllow

Cariad quotes from your post
There was much hilarity at an event
and seeing through that grill thing
I guess it would be easy to hide some food one was eating underneath it throughout all 12 months of the year if need be if sneaking a bar of chocolate

And that’s not making fun !!!
Ummm

woodenspoon Sat 07-Jun-25 08:42:43

In response to your post last night Wyllow I was not starting an inquisition, as you put it. I said, as I am entitled to do, that the person who reported FGT should have the courage of their convictions and say what they found offensive in her post and why they reported it. IF that individual felt so strongly then they should explain why. After all, that person has the cloak of anonymity on here.

No inquisition started by me.

Caleo Sat 07-Jun-25 08:48:20

Wyllow, There may be more of a Muslim presence online in forums for young people.

I hope women will not be oppressed forever but banning the burqa in this country is too dictatorial except as some said for reasons of public safety.

Cariad has a good attitude of curiosity towards how others live,(re trying on a burqa) and Cariad tells a good story. I hope Cariad you will not be intimidated.