Terrible air crash in India/UK

David49

Casdon

According to this report safety concerns have been raised about the structural safety of the Boeing Dreamliner due to manufacturing shortcuts.
news.sky.com/story/india-plane-crash-gatwick-latest-ahmedabad-airport-live-sky-news-13382494?postid=9719471#liveblog-body
It will be dreadful if that turns out to be the reason for the crash.

The expert speculation in this case is that the pilot was not using the proper take off flap settings and the airliner just had not got enough lift to stay in the air.
It also took off from part way down the runway and might have not achieved full speed, not having enough runway to abort take off, had to continue with a low speed take off.
On day one of your pilot training you’re told use all the runway, tarmac behind you is useless, pilots do get complacent.

Speculation is not helpful, even from experts on social media.

I see that the black box has been recovered.

My advice and I give it really not wanting to but dont listen to a lot that the BBC has to say these days , mind you who can you trust on the news these days. Some of them make it up as they go along I do believe just to make it sound as if they have a scoop as they used to call it. This poor guy , yes he survived but he lost his brother and he must be just thinking "why me", when all those other poor souls lost their lives so tragically. Prayers for all.

I read somewhere that this aircraft was in bad repair. None of the call bells worked that air-conditioning was broken and in-flight screens broken and multiple other faults. British aircraft are in a lot better condition and serviced regularly. Accidents happen but if this is the case Air India wants closing down.

Read online he said his brother wasn't next to him but seated somewhere else. Also that he saw a gap in the bodywork, undid his seat belt and used his foot to widen the gap and climb out. Said he saw people dead including an air hostess and others dying infront of him. Was on one of the news online sites so don't know if it's true or not.
I'm wondering if it was sabotage and someone disconnected some of the wiring that moved the fins and landing gear. If it was it's a terrible thing to do. Or could be wiring was faulty anyway or came apart.

Here he is actually telling his story in his own words.
news.sky.com/story/india-plane-crash-gatwick-latest-ahmedabad-airport-live-sky-news-13382494?postid=9723518#liveblog-body

Look at the transport safety figures
10 billion km traveled safely in the air
Meanwhile 5 deaths per day average on UK roads among so many nations
Largely unreported by the media

I don't watch or listen to the news anymore , it's always bad news.

sandye

I read somewhere that this aircraft was in bad repair. None of the call bells worked that air-conditioning was broken and in-flight screens broken and multiple other faults. British aircraft are in a lot better condition and serviced regularly. Accidents happen but if this is the case Air India wants closing down.

That it is a very broad statement. All passenger-carrying aircraft are subject to maintenance procedures/checks laid down by the manufacturer for each aircraft type based on calendar times; flight hours; flight cycles etc. As an aircraft gets older, maintenance/servicing times get longer. At the 10/12 year point, the aircraft is taken apart so that engineers can carryout detailed checks for damage/corrosion; undercarriage assemblies are removed and sent back to the manufacturer for refurbishment etc.

Pilots are required to check the aircraft’s technical log against what is known as a Minimum Equipment List before every flight. Unserviceable In Flight Entertainment would not stop a flight departure whereas unserviceable emergency lights would. The UK CAA monitors compliance for all foreign aircraft landing at UK airports. They have the powers to ground foreign aircraft.

Many decades spent in the air have taught me not to speculate about the cause of any aircraft accident . Accident investigators will narrow down the cause of this accident very quickly from recorded data; cockpit voice and ATC conversations etc. FWiW, the Boeing 787 had up until yesterday a remarkable safety record with over 1100 aircraft in service that have flown 30M flight hours.

For those worried about flying, the total accident rate last year was 1 per 880,000 flights.

North Asia

With a single accident, the all-accident rate increased slightly from zero accidents per million sectors in 2023 to 0.13 in 2024.

Europe

With nine accidents in 2024, the all-accident rate increased slightly from 0.95 per million sectors in 2023 to 1.02 accidents in 2024.

Source IATA Annual Safety Report 2024

My thoughts are with families who have lost loved ones in this tragic accident.

Absolutely a dreadful and disasterous tragedy.

Read about this early this morning at 8am on Facebook.

Could not control the flood of tears.

R.I.P. and all our deepest condolences to the families and dear ones ..

So much ill informed speculation.

Safety concerns have not been raised on the Dreamliner. There were some changes made regarding the batteries when the aircraft was introduced 14 years ago. There have been no fatal crashes.

If there were insufficient flaps set for take off, not only would that mean numerous checklists had not been completed correctly but also that the take off config warnings would have been ignored by the pilots. Plus there would likely have been a tailstrike on rotation.

The aircraft back tracked and used the full 11499 feet of runway. Intersection take offs are standard practice and incorporated in take off performance planning. Every day, multiple times, intersections are used. At any time a pilot can request full length, which is their prerogative but may involve a delay.

A low speed take off would have looked quite different. This aircraft initially climbed normally then lost power, which was also reported in the mayday call.

This is what I mean about uninformed comment and speculation.

Do pilots get complacent? Sometimes. It is human nature. Which is why procedures involve both pilots, involving cross checking and confirming vital actions are completed.

Pilots regularly do simulator training; every year they must pass a rigorous licence skills test to continue their career.
This includes engine fires and failures and numerous other system failures.

We don’t yet know the cause but they sadly had little time to react or recover the situation

Yes black box has been recovered

Yes black box has been found.

The only reliable information so far is what the man on board has relayed from his experience of the take off and crash I think.

I’ve seen footage of all the charred bodies in grotesque positions. One burned onto his seat.
Makes it even more incredulous that someone survived - when it burst into flames on impact.
All will be revealed in due course I expect.

How astonishing that anyone survived. That poor man is going to suffer from survivor's guilt forever. I just hope he is left alone to recover and not be hounded by annoying people wanting to interview him.
I know everyone says that statistically airtravel is very safe, but but when an aircrash happens its so dramatic with so many victims.

IamMaz

I’ve seen footage of all the charred bodies in grotesque positions. One burned onto his seat.
Makes it even more incredulous that someone survived - when it burst into flames on impact.
All will be revealed in due course I expect.

So, who took this ‘footage’ of which you speak? ‘Charred bodies’ ‘One burned on to his seat’? To whom are these pictures credited?

Here is a screen shot of the Air India airliner wheels down flaps retracted.
It can’t fly like that and didn’t, how it got to that position remains to be proved

x.com/PilotPoli/status/1933091986543886618/photo/1

I flew Air India back in 1990. It was fine. Apart from the steward looking after our section obviously thought that women were lesser beings and it was only an adjacent Indian male passenger advocating for us that we were actually fed and watered.

I personally would not travel by air anywhere now until this is figured out . Do the security people a favor and think 2x before you do go anywhere . The less people travelling the easier for security until they find out what’s going on rebook and enjoy the nice weather HERE !!

Air travel is of course statistically a safe way to travel. What makes it scary of course is that if there IS an accident you are not likely to survive it

Is it something with Boeings?
A Boeing bound for Toronto from Paris CDG declared an emergency just 2days ago, and was forced to circle over Normandy to burn off fuel before returning (safely) to CDG

The man who survived the crash (seated in 11A) was flying with his brother who was seated in another row. So sad.

Thank you RinseandRepeat some sense.

That poor man who survived, when fully recovered he will need to get back home to England, I can't imagine he'll want to fly ever again, post traumatic stress would be too much.

Thankyou RinseandRepeat