Resident (Junior) Doctors vote to strike

Childcare is expensive for everyone but its difficult to arrange when you work shifts that constantly change, there's not really a regular pattern. DD works some 12 hour shifts, some 8 hours and nights and potentially can work any day or night in the year. She gets additional pay for this ( not that she has a choice like other health care professionals) which I think is perfectly reasonable. Wouldn't you expect to be paid more for working nights on New year's eve or doing a 12 hour shift on Christmas day?
Tbh some comments on here sicken me, doctors should be paid commensurate with the level of training, conditions of work, level of responsibility and the fact that they effectively have only one employer if they want to continue their training and that is the NHS. They leave uni with more debt than most graduates, have about 10 years of further training ahead of them, are constantly moved during this time to hospitals which can be an hour or more travel apart, have to scrabble for the training places they need without any guarantee they'll get one .... I could go on because I've seen it at close hand together with the stress, exhaustion and disillusionment that most doctors experience. You need to be pretty tough and resilient to make it through. Doctors shouldn't have to threaten to strike for their pay to keep pace with the private sector, it should be a given.
To those who say they knew what they were going to be paid, I've already answered that upthread, they didn't! However you should thank your lucky stars that clever, talented and hard working school leavers still want to be doctors because when they stop, the NHS will be in an even greater mess. It's resident doctors that help to keep it going.

foxie48 - 👏👏👏👏👏

Dog boarding £60 for each dog overnight.

Wow! Our kennel fees are £14 a night. And yes he's very well looked after and always happy to go 🐕

Another wow having looked up locum rates for gps £650 to £850 per day and enhanced hourly rates for F1 and up. Just wow

ronib

Another wow having looked up locum rates for gps £650 to £850 per day and enhanced hourly rates for F1 and up. Just wow

That is why you need to provide sufficient training posts for resident doctors and provide working conditions that will retain them in the NHS.
Then you don't have to pay the enhanced rates for locums.

Yes, Ronib and the rates for locums in NZ, Australia and the US are much, much higher than that. Why? Because doctors are recognised to have trained for years to gain their skills and those skills can be extremely specific to a particular role as well as a requirement to keep patients safe. If an ITU does not have the requisite number of trained staff available, it has to close. If the staff are not available for an operation to go ahead, the operation is cancelled and the theatre often stays unused. However, locums are basically self employed so that rate is not comparable with being on an NHS contract, they are not being trained and they have generally "stepped off" the ladder that leads to consultancy, if not permanently almost certainly temporarily. DD worked as a locum for a year when she wasn't offered a part two training post that she wanted to take as it was several hours away from where she had bought a house and she was in a relationship and had something of a life outside medicine. She earned much more than she earns now, doing fewer hours and taking holiday that enabled her to make extensive trips abroad. She was paid the market rate for her level of skill and experience which was far more than she gets as an NHS employee!

ronib

Exactly how much do the strikers earn and how much do they want? Perhaps they should consider a change of career to finance?
The last time the junior doctors went on strike, my local hospital was working well without them. It was easier for the senior doctors to get on with the work…..

Really? My DIL is a doctor and not how she described it at all. Maybe the senior doctors aren't doing all they could outside of strikes and they should step up and take some hours/pressures off the juniors.

foxie48

Childcare is expensive for everyone but its difficult to arrange when you work shifts that constantly change, there's not really a regular pattern. DD works some 12 hour shifts, some 8 hours and nights and potentially can work any day or night in the year. She gets additional pay for this ( not that she has a choice like other health care professionals) which I think is perfectly reasonable. Wouldn't you expect to be paid more for working nights on New year's eve or doing a 12 hour shift on Christmas day?
Tbh some comments on here sicken me, doctors should be paid commensurate with the level of training, conditions of work, level of responsibility and the fact that they effectively have only one employer if they want to continue their training and that is the NHS. They leave uni with more debt than most graduates, have about 10 years of further training ahead of them, are constantly moved during this time to hospitals which can be an hour or more travel apart, have to scrabble for the training places they need without any guarantee they'll get one .... I could go on because I've seen it at close hand together with the stress, exhaustion and disillusionment that most doctors experience. You need to be pretty tough and resilient to make it through. Doctors shouldn't have to threaten to strike for their pay to keep pace with the private sector, it should be a given.
To those who say they knew what they were going to be paid, I've already answered that upthread, they didn't! However you should thank your lucky stars that clever, talented and hard working school leavers still want to be doctors because when they stop, the NHS will be in an even greater mess. It's resident doctors that help to keep it going.

As someone who needed an emergency c section on Christmas Day I definitely support paying all HCP extra to work, my baby would have died without them and maybe I would have as well.

Ronib all elective work was cancelled in hospitals. I was admitted to A&E during the strikes (Jan 5th to be exact) following a serious accident. I was treated extremely well, seen quickly by a consultant and admitted to a surgical ward for nearly two weeks. I saw several patients come and go and they had all been admitted following emergency surgery for a condition that had become life threatening whilst they had been on a waiting list or in the case of two very elderly ladies, they had been sent home following an operation and returned with complications (possibly sent home too early?) No, hospitals didn't run better, they ran on an emergency only basis. That's not a proper health care system!

I think some of ronib’s posts show just why Junior Doctors feel undervalued. Senior Doctors might have managed whilst others were on strike but waiting lists increased, non emergency procedures were cancelled as were appointments and people like my mother didn’t get their treatments evaluated because there was no one to order tests or change antibiotics. That meant a longer stay in hospital.

My husband was admitted to hospital during a strike and I can assure you that he was well treated. I spoke to a young doctor , as I was helping to calm said husband during a really painful procedure, who said that she would never strike and she did not agree with the actions of her colleagues. So grateful for her support and care.

Iam64

Dog trainers charge £50 or £60 per hour. Dog boarding £60 for each dog overnight. Cleaners and gardeners £30 -£50
Personal Trainers £50 per hour. My hair stylist drives a Ferrari

Yes, they’re self employed so need to insure and set up pension plans. They’re in charge of their work life balance and much less likely to be verbally or physically assaulted than a doc in A and E

Most self employed people have a private pension that they'll claim when they retire. I'd imagine someone on £50 an hour will be putting a considerable sum into their private pension so they can retire early, or go part time in their fifties. If someone is prepared to pay a personal trainer £50 an hour, it's probably because the trainer is very good or lives in an area that is very expensive like London.

We know that resident doctors, as they now prefer to be called, have to do years of academic work and training but they are handsomely paid as they progress up the ladder ending up with excellent pay and pensions.
If the BMA wasn’t so very left wing and militant then I don’t think they would come out on strike again this year.

Well thanks to my interaction here on Gnet, I have written to my mp with a suggestion that medics should be stopped from calling strikes…. I doubt that he will take my suggestion seriously but……

Oreo

We know that resident doctors, as they now prefer to be called, have to do years of academic work and training but they are handsomely paid as they progress up the ladder ending up with excellent pay and pensions.
If the BMA wasn’t so very left wing and militant then I don’t think they would come out on strike again this year.

Ending up with a great salary isn't much help if you're in your 30s trying to pay your student loans, pay a mortgage, feed your kids.

Well the majority of graduates in their early 30s are in this category too not just resident doctors but unlikely to stop working for 5 days at a time. theworriedwell

Anyone joining the doctor's pension scheme after 2015 gets a pension based on career average not on final salary. This is no where near as generous as the final salary pension that doctors used to get. My daughter pays 12.5% of salary as a pension contribution. She was a post grad medical student and didn't start earning until she was 26 and up to that time she was wracking up loans that have to be repaid out of salary. I think, perhaps, some are way behind in their knowledge of current salaries for highly trained graduates and base some of their comments on information which is no longer correct.

ronib

Well the majority of graduates in their early 30s are in this category too not just resident doctors but unlikely to stop working for 5 days at a time. theworriedwell

Most graduates are not tied to one employer and can move around to get a better salary and working conditions, unfortunately the only way doctors can do that is to work abroad or move out of medicine. Thankfully, most doctors want to be doctors and have invested a huge amount of time, effort and money to achieve that aim.

Good point. foxie48 Thu 17-Jul-25 15:44:15

Most people’s income has eroded in recent years not just doctors. Many other professions would have a good case to strike. This is greed as was the train drivers’ strike. All extremely well paid as it was.

There are some careers with exceptional remuneration for graduates in their early to mid 30s but graduate nurses, teachers, and engineers for example have salaries in line with resident doctors if they are lucky. Bankers, lawyers, accountants, vets, dentists probably make more.
The young doctors I know don’t mind working abroad and also doctors from abroad don’t mind working here. Interesting ….. foxie48

ronib

Well the majority of graduates in their early 30s are in this category too not just resident doctors but unlikely to stop working for 5 days at a time. theworriedwell

The majority don't have as much in loans, majority can work during degree but difficult with med degree, most degrees aren't 5 or 6 years. Normal working week isn't 48 hours. Lots of differences.

Lawyer and bankers can work well in excess of 48 hours. A law degree takes 3 years plus is it one or two years extra and another two years to become fully qualified. Engineering too can be a long haul to full chartered status and modern living is highly dependent on engineers. It’s not that simple theworriedwell

Ronib foreign doctors aren't paying off student debt so effectively take home more pay than a English or Welsh doctor. Scotland has a bursary system that grad med students can apply for which can give them up to £16k p.a. if they agree to apply to do their foundation training and first two years after that in Scotland However, as I have said at the very beginning of this thread, I don't support the doctors present pay claim, I doubt the NHS can afford it but that doesn't mean that they are not underpaid for the level of training, working conditions (which are incredibly disruptive to having anything of a home or social life) and the amount of debt that most doctors carry into their working life.

foxie48 AI states that foreign doctors are paying off student debt if working here.