Israel/Gaza War - Hundreds of Israeli ex-officials appeal to Trump to help end Gaza war

AGAA4

Starmer said he disapproved of the attack on Qatar so I hope he has had some strong words with the president.
Not sure he will.

I doubt it.
The man does what he is told and hasn’t got the backbone to challenge this.

silverlining48

It’s getting harder being a Labour supporter in these unsettling times.

I have given up on them after supporting them for all my voting life. Am 68 now.
This is not a party with a social conscience or any conscience it seems.

Just heard Linerker’s acceptance speech for his TV award, he acknowledged it was because he used his popularity as a platform to speak out, his audience cheered loudly. Antisemitism is rampant in this country

Babs03

silverlining48

It’s getting harder being a Labour supporter in these unsettling times.

I have given up on them after supporting them for all my voting life. Am 68 now.
This is not a party with a social conscience or any conscience it seems.

(Have a look on this thread where you can discuss Labour)
www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1351568-Mainstream-Labour

There is an interesting article on BBC website by Ros Atkins discussing the disproportionate response by Israel in its defence.
The majority of those interviewed including a supreme court judge, barristers and university professors have agreed that Israel have gone beyond what it can claim as defence with some saying that defence isn't it's ultimate goal.
This is what some of us on this thread have been saying for a long time.

If hamas isn’t completely eliminated in Gaza in the next few months, tho I think they will be, then the job of defence isn’t done.
It may seem disproportionate to some but it has to take place.

Eliminating Hamas could occur but it won’t eliminate the threat of terrorism against Israel, the next group that rises out of the ashes of Gaza may not call itself Hamas but you can bet that those who have seen loved ones ripped apart by bombs or starved to death will not forgive or forget, just as Israel cannot forgive or forget what happened on Oct 7th. Unfortunately the revenge Israel has visited upon innocent civilians will result in a similar response from Gaza at some point in the future, whatever shape that future takes.
Revenge is always a two way road, and will lead to a never ending conflict that will not make Israel safer or more secure but the total opposite.
This is why genocide is preferable, with Netanyahu thinking that if he kills as many Palestinians as possible or simply expend them he can ensure that such terrorism never occurs again. But doing this just ensures the opposite, for wherever Palestinians are expelled to there will emerge a hard core who want justice for the innocents massacred.
If we expect this sense of justice from Israelis we should not be surprised when Palestinians feel the same way. They are human and this is human nature.

Correction - expel not expend

What Israel is doing has gone way beyond what is necessary. Hamas have been weakened with many leaders killed. That is what international law will say is enough.

Israel have carried on killing innocents and as Smotrich has said they will flatten Gaza and cleanse it of Palestinians. That means all even those who aren't Hamas.
I believe that has been their aim from the start.
As Babs03 has said Israel will be in far more danger than ever. Hopefully this extreme right wing government will be voted out in just over a year.

I don’t think that Israel will worry at this time about extremism from other Muslim groups in the future, they and their kind never go away do they? They just need keeping on top of as we have seen here in the UK. Vigilance from the authorities.

Hopefully for the sake of the Israeli people their intelligence services will be very vigilant now.
As well as not wanting any more Palestinian deaths I don't want Israelis hurt either.
Most people want peace in the middle east but it never seems to stay peaceful for long.

I think Oreo genocide will always be disproportionate to some.

It isn’t genocide.Even the UK government don’t agree with the assessment that it is.

I'm not sure what word you would use for 65,000 Palestinians killed, many injured, little aid getting through and people being forced out of their homes and made to travel to another part of the country apart from those dying or seriously ill through malnutrition.
All this has been brought about by Israel's policies.

What ever is happening is brought about by Hamas Palestinians attack on Israel 7th October 2023

Its never, ever, one side that "Started it ".

You know the checkered history all to well, we, including you, have discussed it in the past.

Quote Wyllow3 Sat 13-Sept-25 02:19:58
Its never, ever, one side that "Started it ".

You know the checkered history all to well, we, including you, have discussed it in the past

And I agreed ? no

True, but the complexity was discussed at length: so to blame "one side entirely" and just starting in 2023 obscures the realities.

The real blame lies in the decisions 1948/9 when - not the UK, btw, who didnt agree -it was mainly US influence afaik that stopped Palestine becoming a state there and then.

Quote Wyllow3 Sat 13-Sept-25 08:24:30
True, but the complexity was discussed at length: so to blame "one side entirely" and just starting in 2023 obscures the realities.

I had replied to a post ref the war , Israel and Hamas so yes 7th October 2023

No.

We cannot, imo, avoid history when considering the present.

Questions like, what were the political and ical circumstances that changed Hamas from a mainly political group, to what they are now.

Like, what is the history of Israeli hardliners (from the very, very, start).

political and social

October 2023
Add comment | Report | Private message | Quote Wyllow3 Sat 13-Sept-25 08:47:10
No.

We cannot, imo, avoid history when considering the present.

Questions like, what were the political and ical circumstances that changed Hamas from a mainly political group, to what they are now.

Like, what is the history of Israeli hardliners (from the very, very, start).

Like, The Holocaust, Antisemitism? Yet I am constantly told ‘start a thread’

Going round in circles.

It would be an interesting point to start a thread on, however, to re-ask, "How did the long history of conflict lead to the hard-liners gaining control in Israel and the changes in Hamas"

Given that its been discussed for some years here on GN, I won't be joining in and repeating it all, but for other GN's, a chance to ask questions.

Here, is a top and I think fair summary. I believe I've posted it from before.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza–Israel_conflict#:~:text=The%20Gaza–Israel%20conflict%20is,wars%20in%20the%20Gaza%20Strip.

But we are meandering.