If you want to understand the techniques Farage uses ...

Teazel2

MaizieD

Teazel2

I have watched it, what a load of rubbish. Nigel is not creating a feeling of crisis, there is a crisis! He is also a brilliant orator and debater, his maiden speech in the HoC was brilliant. What a load of absolute tosh from an obvious left wing bias.

So who and what has convinced you that there is a crisis?

And, what is this ‘crisis’?

Its only people with their heads in the sand who dont think there is a crisis.

Do you agree that Farage uses careful rhetorical devices to persuade you of that view? Or have you been truly duped by it that you can't see it?

Teazel2 clearly my head is in the sand.

Perhaps you could help rid me of my ignorance and tell me what exactly ‘the crisis’ is.

Personally I think it’s naive not to acknowledge that there is a growing disconnect between sectors of the electorate and the two main parties.

Nigel Farage will step into this role if the other parties are not seen to be doing well on the topics constantly in MSM.

Reform are doing well in opinion polls which only serves to bolster their credibility to some.

(I am not a Reform supporter or any other party, but I am capable of seeing what’s going on, doesn’t mean I agree with it though)

It is also a growing disconnect between the political class, and the working class in particular.

As a coal miner’s daughter I was shocked when the Labour Government’s first act was to stop the Winter Fuel Allowance for pensioners on about £11k a year, that was certainly not in line with Old Labour principles

Saltyspec

As a coal miner’s daughter I was shocked when the Labour Government’s first act was to stop the Winter Fuel Allowance for pensioners on about £11k a year, that was certainly not in line with Old Labour principles

It's now been restored. £200 a year is a far cry from the claims some people make about targeting old people - unless you have any other examples.

The OP was about Farage's rhetoric, not about his policies. Do people recognise them?

No use beating about the bush, many ordinary working people are also concerned at the influx of undocumented potentially criminal economic migrants. When we are borrowing to pay interest on earlier loans and the economy is failing it makes no sense to increase the national debt by importing problems

LizzieDrip

Teazel2 clearly my head is in the sand.

Perhaps you could help rid me of my ignorance and tell me what exactly ‘the crisis’ is.

Ha! Let me know where you are and O'll be round with my bucket and spade. Well, I would be round, except my head is stuck in the sand too.

Saltyspec

No use beating about the bush, many ordinary working people are also concerned at the influx of undocumented potentially criminal economic migrants. When we are borrowing to pay interest on earlier loans and the economy is failing it makes no sense to increase the national debt by importing problems

Are they concerned about immigration in general? Do they actually know what percentage of the population the "boat people" represent?

The immigration crisis is classic Farage and proves the point of the OP.

Galaxy

It is also a growing disconnect between the political class, and the working class in particular.

I acknowledge that. What do you think could be done about it?

growstuff

Saltyspec

As a coal miner’s daughter I was shocked when the Labour Government’s first act was to stop the Winter Fuel Allowance for pensioners on about £11k a year, that was certainly not in line with Old Labour principles

It's now been restored. £200 a year is a far cry from the claims some people make about targeting old people - unless you have any other examples.

I know, and had they put that level in originally there would have been far less outcry. The allotment building business will also affect many pensioners and those pensioners on low incomes are certainly feeling the high energy and food inflation. But I don’t think they are targeting pensioners particularly, they just don’t understand or value the views of ordinary working people

growstuff it is not just classic Farage though is it?

The boat crossings are on virtually every news bulletin along with newspapers along with digital media.

The current government particularly the Hone Secretary are also focusing on this topic.

Thank you for the reply Saltyspec. I know you didn't claim that the government has it in for pensioners, but some posters have claimed it, but I just don't see it.

I see a weird kind of virtue signalling here. Pensioners complain about the loss of WFA (understandably - nobody wants to lose a benefit) and justify it by talking about those pensioners on low incomes.

I am one of those pensioners. I live on the state pension plus some housing benefit (which I obviously don't see because I pay it straight to my landlord). Yes, I missed having an extra couple of hundred pounds in my bank account just before Christmas, but I didn't starve or freeze last winter. It really wasn't a huge disaster.

growstuff

Saltyspec

No use beating about the bush, many ordinary working people are also concerned at the influx of undocumented potentially criminal economic migrants. When we are borrowing to pay interest on earlier loans and the economy is failing it makes no sense to increase the national debt by importing problems

Are they concerned about immigration in general? Do they actually know what percentage of the population the "boat people" represent?

I reckon it’s both now. The boat people are a tiny but very visible portion, and fears are evoked because they are undocumented. More generally there was an expectation of more integration and less criminality than has been the case, there have been higher numbers than can be coped with, wages have therefore been kept down, and we see for example, drs and nurses being imported while our own newly qualified can’t obtain posts. These things bring the unrest that is now increasing. But the govt don’t see it and try to stop the unrest rather than resolve the issue

GrannyGravy13

growstuff it is not just classic Farage though is it?

The boat crossings are on virtually every news bulletin along with newspapers along with digital media.

The current government particularly the Hone Secretary are also focusing on this topic.

That's not surprising. The UK has very biased media and Farage has loud voice. Just because it's headline news doesn't mean that it's the most important issue facing the country. What it means is that the government's spin doctors and PR teams aren't doing a very good job.

It is classic Farage and all the people who are falling for his rhetoric.

Saltyspec

growstuff

Saltyspec

No use beating about the bush, many ordinary working people are also concerned at the influx of undocumented potentially criminal economic migrants. When we are borrowing to pay interest on earlier loans and the economy is failing it makes no sense to increase the national debt by importing problems

Are they concerned about immigration in general? Do they actually know what percentage of the population the "boat people" represent?

I reckon it’s both now. The boat people are a tiny but very visible portion, and fears are evoked because they are undocumented. More generally there was an expectation of more integration and less criminality than has been the case, there have been higher numbers than can be coped with, wages have therefore been kept down, and we see for example, drs and nurses being imported while our own newly qualified can’t obtain posts. These things bring the unrest that is now increasing. But the govt don’t see it and try to stop the unrest rather than resolve the issue

Doctors and nurses aren't undocumented. There's more behind doctors' not being able to obtain posts than immigration. Is there evidence that immigration keeps wages down rather than filling gaps which other people won't touch?

The whole immigration issue needs sensible discussion, but fears have been whipped up to a frenzy. You have also forgotten that there are some groups, including neo-Nazis, who are very happy to see the unrest, have been involved and are responsible for fuelling the fires. You're whistling in the wind if you think Reform has any solutions.

I think it is too late growstuff, I am exceedingly pessimistic about it. The labour party in my view has moved more and more to a party of the middle class, perhaps it was Blairs fault after all.

Growstuff hear, hear to your posts👏👏👏

I suppose we’ll just have to be content with our heads in the sand … until someone can tell us what ‘the crisis’ actually is🤷‍♀️

Saltyspec

No use beating about the bush, many ordinary working people are also concerned at the influx of undocumented potentially criminal economic migrants. When we are borrowing to pay interest on earlier loans and the economy is failing it makes no sense to increase the national debt by importing problems

That’s what it is. A problem. And no one is saying that it isn’t a problem. But it isn’t, as Reform make it out to be, a crisis.

Whether it's a crisis or a problem, as I said previously, I think that we would be foolish to think that Mr Farage et al have any ability to tackle it : talk about it, absolutely, but actual workable solutions, sadly not
If there is an excellent idea waiting to be implemented, I have yet to hear it from Mr F, although I am happy to acknowledge his skill at rhetoric.
Does Mr Farage pay tax in Britain?
I understood that his main residence is elsewhere - Belgium, or..?

The problem is with chucking them out, as it is almost impossible to entirely stop them coming.
Twice to-day on MSN have I heard the perceived necessity to modify the rules of the ECHR.. Farage will go down that road. He also is targeting the young,white disaffected male who are, we are told, is ready for a fight.

I have been told that he and Reform are funded by climate change deniers and people involved in offshore investment ( happy to be corrected about this). So I don’t see how he is going to help working people. If only he used his gift as an orator to do good things.

growstuff

GrannyGravy13

growstuff it is not just classic Farage though is it?

The boat crossings are on virtually every news bulletin along with newspapers along with digital media.

The current government particularly the Hone Secretary are also focusing on this topic.

That's not surprising. The UK has very biased media and Farage has loud voice. Just because it's headline news doesn't mean that it's the most important issue facing the country. What it means is that the government's spin doctors and PR teams aren't doing a very good job.

It is classic Farage and all the people who are falling for his rhetoric.

Its not a question of falling for his rhetoric, which is a patronising statement. Its a question of this and previous government failing to control our borders. Nige may not be the answer but he deserves a chance and can be no worse than what has gone before. I know there are a hard core on here who scoff but everyone I speak to in everyday life is really fearful of what is happening.