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I thought the Labour party was meant to be the political party for and of the 'woking class'

(196 Posts)
M0nica Sun 07-Sept-25 11:00:57

The most shocking part of the Angela Rayner debacle has been the way people have constantly gone on and on about her 'humble working class' origins, as if it was a amazing for a politician to have such a background

But Rayner is a member of the LABOUR party, the party set up by 'working class' people to represent themselves and in times past, a large proportion of their MPs had worked down mines, in shipyards and factories, so why should her social origins be of any interest at all. They should be normal for the Labour party.

In 1979 16% of MPs had worked in manual occupations, now it is down to 3%. that is spread across all major parties, including SNP. But the majority are likely to be in the Labour party.

Perhaps the failure of current governments and immediately past governments is due to the fact that they are no longer representative of the ordinary working population.

Too many lawyers (14%) and political organisers (17%). Too few, nurses, IT specialists, shop workers, warehouse operatives and the like.

All figures from a House of Commons Library research document, Social Background of MPs 1979-2019 researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7483/CBP-7483.pdf

growstuff Mon 08-Sept-25 11:11:23

MaizieD

^I think you'll find there's a significant rural hinterland, which skews the voting profile.^

Being a child at the time I wasn't really aware of the constituency boundaries. When posting I thought there might have been a rural hinterland, but even so, agriculture in the 50s/60s was quite a big employer.

It still was in the 1980s, when I was working in the area. Many of the pretty little villages have now become gentrified. Some of the farmers sold out, but there are still multi-millionaire landowners. Many of the former farm and small factory workers now find that lifestyles have moved on (without taking them with them) and vote Reform. Immigration tends to be from Eastern Europe, so there are arguments about foreigners undercutting their jobs.

M0nica Mon 08-Sept-25 11:12:54

PoliticsNerd

According to AI research:

If class distinctions in the UK were solely based on income, they might be categorized as follows:

*Upper Class:*
- Extremely high income, typically from wealth, investments, or high-paying executive roles.
- Example income range: £500,000+ annually.

*Upper Middle Class:*
- High income, often professionals, senior managers, or entrepreneurs with substantial earnings.
- Example income range: £100,000 – £500,000 annually.

*Middle Class:*
- Moderate income, including skilled professionals, teachers, mid-level managers.
- Example income range: £40,000 – £100,000 annually.

*Lower Middle Class:*
- Lower-middle income earners, such as clerical workers or lower-tier professionals.
- Example income range: £20,000 – £40,000 annually.

*Working Class:*
- Income from manual or routine jobs, with less job security or benefits.
- Example income range: £10,000 – £20,000 annually.

*Lower Class / Socioeconomically Disadvantaged:*
- Very low income, often facing financial instability.
- Example income below £10,000 annually.

Note: These categories are simplified and hypothetical; actual social class involves cultural, educational, and social factors beyond income alone.

AI is wrong, it can only reflect what is already being written and said. It cannot judge whether what it says is correct.

I would agree with its definions, not with its nomenclature, for the very simple reason that at all income levels you will meet people doing every type of occupation, and having widely varying lifestyles.

For example: those in the population with an income between 40,000 - 100,000 will include a lot of skilled tradespeople, those choosing alternative lifestyles and many who do not really fit into any category.

PoliticsNerd Mon 08-Sept-25 11:21:18

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TakeThat7 Mon 08-Sept-25 12:57:55

I don't think Labour are representative of the working class apart from school breakfasts have they done anything for people on low income They changed rules on buying council houses November 25 so it's less easy on a low wages Don't the free breakfast clubs take work away from often working class childminders anyway Single women who need to be around for their children could be childminders

Iam64 Mon 08-Sept-25 13:26:03

The free breakfast clubs are aimed at ensuring all children eat something before school, I well remember one six year old arriving sobbing. Miss I’ve missed breakfast clubs and I’ve had nowt since school dinner ……. No miss I can’t eat your banana or you’ll be hungry as well “

REKA Mon 08-Sept-25 13:29:04

Jilly Cooper wrote a somewhat amusing book. It was simply called Class. Must have been back in the 70s.

windmill1 Mon 08-Sept-25 13:32:50

REKA

Jilly Cooper wrote a somewhat amusing book. It was simply called Class. Must have been back in the 70s.

I remember Jilly Coopers observations on class. That book was hilarious! Remember the Nouveau-Riches who had more money than sense?

nanna8 Mon 08-Sept-25 13:32:53

What’s with all this class obsession already ? Nasty.

Oreo Mon 08-Sept-25 13:36:05

nanna8

What’s with all this class obsession already ? Nasty.

I thought that generally we’d left all that stuff behind us, but maybe not🤔

Anniebach Mon 08-Sept-25 13:50:41

Such judgement on “working class”, was The Cooper book about working class not knowing how to live with money ?

M0nica Mon 08-Sept-25 13:52:23

growstuff
How should people behave to be eligible to vote Labour?

It would appear that having anything beyond basic education and eating with friends round a table disqualifies people.

No one is precluded from voting for Labour. My concern is that so many Labour MPs and those who work for Labour in government come from such a narrow range of occupations, and, given who the party was set up and what their back grounds were and who they wished to represent.

In the current Labour party, someone coming from the same background as its founders is treated as some quite exceptional person who should be praised and looked at in awe.

Allira Mon 08-Sept-25 13:58:00

Iam64

The free breakfast clubs are aimed at ensuring all children eat something before school, I well remember one six year old arriving sobbing. Miss I’ve missed breakfast clubs and I’ve had nowt since school dinner ……. No miss I can’t eat your banana or you’ll be hungry as well “

I remember a former Children's Commissioner for Wales saying she asked one boy if he enjoyed the long summer school holidays. He said he didn't because he didn't get any dinners in the school holidays. ☹

Mojack26 Mon 08-Sept-25 14:15:08

AR knew fine well what she was doing or at very least double checked as she was meeting the ministerial code. Hoisted by her own petard I think

Jess20 Mon 08-Sept-25 14:24:07

Austerity as based on a flawed data set with missing data. The Osborne austerity years still leave us all poorer for no good reason. www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.tiktok.com/%40fryrsquared/video/7326976812322393377&ved=2ahUKEwj5jobpoMmPAxXBXUEAHSNhMr4QtwJ6BAgLEAE&usg=AOvVaw1P3mF0xEBxPKVykvPPHwyZ

Jess20 Mon 08-Sept-25 14:26:54

Ignore above wrong thread

Plunger Mon 08-Sept-25 15:02:20

Can someone please define a 'working class person' or even a 'worker'? You would think doctors don't work, bankers don't work and for that matter, MPs don't work. Round here plumbers, painter and decorators, roofers etc all earn as much if not more than many doctors.Does the term working class have any real meaning now? Personally I doubt it.

J52 Mon 08-Sept-25 15:22:50

It was tongue-in-cheek J52
🙄
(Shakes head in despair)

Didn’t sound it Allira. Hope your heads ok, with all that shaking.

rowyn Mon 08-Sept-25 15:23:42

Gosh, there seems to be an obsession re so called 'class'.

What about intelligence?
For a long time I have thought that anyone wanting to be an MP should take an intelligence test, and gain an agreed minimum score . They should also be of a minimum age as well. I'm tempted to suggest that all candidates should take a personality test too!
We need MPs from all walks of life, with the intelligence to know how decisions will affect the economy etc, and where to go when needing information about that and other things that will affect most of the population.
I might even think that MPs should be at least 21 years old, even though Starmer seems to think the opposite in that he wants to lower the age for voters. . Perhaps he should be asked to watch a few episodes of ' Educating Yorkshire' on the TV.

Allira Mon 08-Sept-25 16:10:15

I might even think that MPs should be at least 21 years old, even though Starmer seems to think the opposite in that he wants to lower the age for voters.

If the voting age is lowered to 16, would that mean that 16 and 17 year olds could stand for election as MPs?

albertina Mon 08-Sept-25 16:10:59

I heard Alan Johnson speaking at Dartington Hall some years ago. Such good sense. A Labour man through and through.

I have voted Labour all my life, but hadn't ever joined the party. I was so convinced that Keir Starmer would lead the party with wisdom and care, I joined.

After they went for the elderly and the disabled in their attempt to rake in some £, I left in disgust. The Labour Party has made efforts to get me to rejoin ( me and a lot of other disappointed people, I suspect) but I never will.

Time for Starmer to go for the FAT CATS, not struggling elderly folk and the disabled and sick. Long overdue.

Sago Mon 08-Sept-25 16:14:43

As I said up thread I really dislike the use of the words working class, it is like the use of that awful word “posh”, is it derogatory or complimentary, what does it even mean?

So I decided to do some research as to what constitutes being working class.
You.Gov have done a poll and here are the results, it makes interesting reading.

yougov.co.uk/society/articles/51105-how-do-britons-define-social-class

Primrose53 Mon 08-Sept-25 16:19:10

albertina

I heard Alan Johnson speaking at Dartington Hall some years ago. Such good sense. A Labour man through and through.

I have voted Labour all my life, but hadn't ever joined the party. I was so convinced that Keir Starmer would lead the party with wisdom and care, I joined.

After they went for the elderly and the disabled in their attempt to rake in some £, I left in disgust. The Labour Party has made efforts to get me to rejoin ( me and a lot of other disappointed people, I suspect) but I never will.

Time for Starmer to go for the FAT CATS, not struggling elderly folk and the disabled and sick. Long overdue.

Same here Albertina. I voted Labour for much of my adult life as it was the way my Dad voted and it was the norm for our neighbourhood. Never would again.

I admired Alan Johnson very much too. He and the late John Smith were Labour through and through as you say. Nobody to match either of them in recent years.

Allira Mon 08-Sept-25 16:19:20

J52

It was tongue-in-cheek J52
🙄
(Shakes head in despair)

Didn’t sound it Allira. Hope your heads ok, with all that shaking.

Et tu Brute?

Actually, my posts were in answer to some rather tongue-in -cheek questions and similar posts.

That is how they appeared to be, anyway.

RinseAndRepeat Mon 08-Sept-25 16:29:36

Listening to Radio 4 this morning, one would have thought that The Labour Party should be renamed as The Unions’ Party.

I note that the ‘workers’ are holding London to ransom again by calling a Tube Strike.

‘The average Tube driver's salary is approximately £65,179, according to April 2024 figures from a Freedom of Information request to Transport for London (TfL). For comparison, TfL provided a fixed salary of £63,901 for train operators in late 2023, with instructor operators earning £66,649, and these amounts may not include overtime and other compensation.’

The irony here is that is absolutely no need for anyone to drive a Tube train. There are now driverless metro trains in countries as far a field as China; UAE and Canada.

To get back on topic, if any politician uses their upbringing and social background to enhance their credentials with the electorate, and to defend themselves over their Ministerial conduct, they run the risk of this being used against them should they fall foul of the rules.

Anniebach Mon 08-Sept-25 16:29:41

Quote Primrose53 Mon 08-Sept-25 16:19:10

admired Alan Johnson very much too. He and the late John Smith were Labour through and through as you say. Nobody to match either of them in recent years.

John Smith, QC, son of a headmaster,