Charlie Kirk shot

Quote MaizieD Sat 13-Sept-25 09:47:24
Anniebach
Agree ronib , much that was condemned by most Christian Churches are now accepted and not spoken of

Christianity is just one belief system among many world wide. There is absolutely no reason why it should be held to be more important than any other and christians have no right to try to impose their beliefs on others. Especially when they are as warped as those of Charlie Kirk.

In my eyes he, and others of his ilk, was the equivalent of the Taliban when it comes to warping the christian message and trying to impose his twisted morality on everyone else.

I was brought up in a christian household, I think my parents would have been appalled at Kirk's 'message'. I certainly am, bearing in mind that the chief christian message is supposedly one of love for all people.

Christian Churches have certainly not practiced it in the past, it is not as simplistic as you claim. The disagreement of abortion, a woman’s right v the right to life,

Oreo

DaisyAnneReturns

I don't know if you heard his wife making an announcement this morning. It seems she wants to be a real life Serena Joy. She really should remember how the patriarchy dealt with her. Lessons about extremism often fall on it most strident supporters along side many of the weakest/poorest in society.

You can’t make pronouncements on anyone’s marriage. She is a grieving wife who’s husband has just been publicly murdered.
Have a little respect.

I didn't make comments on anyone's marriage. What was it thst made you think that?

How about the sentence ‘ it seems she wants to be a real life Serena Joy’.
I found your post on a grieving wife very strange.

Christian Churches have certainly not practiced it in the past, it is not as simplistic as you claim. The disagreement of abortion, a woman’s right v the right to life,

What isn't as simplistic as I claim, Ab?

What I see is people professing to be christians violating the primacy of 'love' at every turn. I know that 'love your neighbour as yourself' isn't at all easy but there's no excuse for hate.

Christians are welcome to disagree among themselves over abortion, but have no right to impose their views on others, any more than have Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus, or any other belief system.

But surely Charlie Kirk had the right, if you like, to debate deeply held views with a wide audience?MaizieD
I think he was looking for some kind of reset or pause button on the new morality. Of course, Charlie Kirk knew that single handedly he wasn’t going to change the world but by debate, maybe he thought some changes would filter through.
Abortion isn’t only for Christians to query. Other faiths will have a position?

Oreo

How about the sentence ‘ it seems she wants to be a real life Serena Joy’.
I found your post on a grieving wife very strange.

In "A Handmaid's Tale" we are given hints at a period of societal turmoil that brought Gilead to the place it is at in the "now" of the book. The previous "New England" in America went though a time of environmental collapse including widespread ecological disasters, such as pollution and climate change, that destabilised nations. It saw political corruption and conflict with the decline of democratic institutions and increasing polarisation. Then came the rise of religious extremism with fundamentalist groups gaining power and advocating for strict societal controls. With a crisis of rights and freedoms the country shuts itself off from the rest of the world.

In the book Serena Joy is a leader of this movement at the start but she too is forced to live under the dictatorship of a patriarchal society, punished as a women for wanting anything more.

My post was just a comparison between a fictional and a factual women wanting both power and a patriarchal society. I'm sorry if you have a problem with others having an opinion. You may guess I wouldn't agree to a suppression of views however sorry I feel for a families loss of one of its members.

The Quran forbids abortion after 120 days except to save a mother’s life.

Yes I’ve read The Handmaid’s Tale and watched the tv series.
Just found your comment a strange one, so soon after the wife lost her husband in such a shocking way.
I have no problem with anyone having an opinion of course.

Buddhism also not in favour of abortion as a general rule.

In the UK it seems that the pro abortion lobby has gained more traction than the anti. The gift of Charlie Kirk was to encourage some thinking on the subject at a time when it wasn’t encouraged to debate or even silently pray about it.

So, in the UK, the last survey showed that 45% of people thought abortion should only be available after 24 weeks in very very specific circumstances. To be very clear, the survey showed that the majority of people support the right to abortion but nearly half the population has concerns about the time limit, etc. These people won't all be Christians. Views on abortion are complex and frequently not just faith driven.

ronib

But surely Charlie Kirk had the right, if you like, to debate deeply held views with a wide audience?MaizieD
I think he was looking for some kind of reset or pause button on the new morality. Of course, Charlie Kirk knew that single handedly he wasn’t going to change the world but by debate, maybe he thought some changes would filter through.
Abortion isn’t only for Christians to query. Other faiths will have a position?

People are allowed of course, to hold their own view on abortion but since Trump ensured a right wing Supreme court which overturned Roe and Wade, many Americans can discuss abortion all they like but if they live in many states in the US their right to exercise their choice has been taken away from them.

Quote MaizieD Sat 13-Sept-25 10:52:02
Christian Churches have certainly not practiced it in the past, it is not as simplistic as you claim. The disagreement of abortion, a woman’s right v the right to life,

What isn't as simplistic as I claim, Ab?

What I see is people professing to be christians violating the primacy of 'love' at every turn. I know that 'love your neighbour as yourself' isn't at all easy but there's no excuse for hate.

Christians are welcome to disagree among themselves over abortion, but have no right to impose their views on others, any more than have Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus, or any other belief system.

Christians can disagree among themselves? Atheists can speak of it freely as a ‘woman’s right’ ?

I agree Galaxy and many people’s views are nothing to do with a faith.
I have a question about time limits it really bothers me as I think abortion should only be done very early on.

The decision about Abortion should not be based on some random faith, but on science and sociological evidence.

Oreo

Yes I’ve read The Handmaid’s Tale and watched the tv series.
Just found your comment a strange one, so soon after the wife lost her husband in such a shocking way.
I have no problem with anyone having an opinion of course.

She was campaigning yesterday (in the US), Oreo and my "concern" was for her level of understanding about how those in the MAGA movement would react to her suggestion of taking over her husbands role.

The type of organisation she supports is likely to humour her for a while, even parade her as a example of women in their party, just as Conservatives do here. But you only have to look at what the small "c" conservatives and the Farage followers said about Angela Raynor on here to know she will be eventually "witched" out.

Impossible to know how it will play out, at the moment she will be grieving and beyond angry.

Thanks for the response Galaxy.

I hadn’t heard of Charlie Kirk until he was murdered, so I’ve researched him, his views and his words.

I find that I disagree with him on almost everything he talked about. More than that, I find many of his views abhorrent, particularly those relating to women, race and empathy for others.

Yet, many people (even on GN) appear to almost ‘idolise’ him. TBH, I’m finding this difficult to get my head round - hence my search for some sort of understanding.

I think, I’m currently trying to make my own sense of a world that I find increasingly incomprehensible. Futile maybe, but I like to understand things!

ronib

The Quran forbids abortion after 120 days except to save a mother’s life.

That's over 17 weeks, pretty much in line with the vast majority of abortions. The fundamentalist Christian approach is worse than Islam. I thank God I am an Atheist, pardon the pun.

www.texastribune.org/2024/11/27/texas-abortion-death-porsha-ngumezi/

Galaxy

So, in the UK, the last survey showed that 45% of people thought abortion should only be available after 24 weeks in very very specific circumstances. To be very clear, the survey showed that the majority of people support the right to abortion but nearly half the population has concerns about the time limit, etc. These people won't all be Christians. Views on abortion are complex and frequently not just faith driven.

Last week we saw photos of Angela Rayners son, despite his challenges he looked a happy young man. Born at 23 weeks. It is hard to set a time limit but surely right that there should be one. I find it hard to accept that at 24 weeks it isn't a baby, a person.

I hadn’t heard of him either, but haven’t seen any posts on here idolising him or even almost idolising him.
What I have seen on here by posters is very much disliking the idea that someone can be shot dead for airing opinions.

True. But she is dealing with people who are only out for themselves and see a particular structure as giving that to them. Many MAGA voters are beginning to see the systems they thought would benefit them actually take them or their family out too. If you can, in any way, be identified to fit MAGAs description - put on the wrong "clothes" at the wrong time - and you too will be gassed.

Last post a reply to Oreo's "Impossible to know how it will play out, at the moment she will be grieving and beyond angry".

DaisyAnneReturns I have no idea what you are saying or trying to say?

Oreo

I hadn’t heard of him either, but haven’t seen any posts on here idolising him or even almost idolising him.
What I have seen on here by posters is very much disliking the idea that someone can be shot dead for airing opinions.

Oreo idolise:

“to admire someone or something.”

Synonyms with examples from oxford dictionary.org

*admire: I’ve always admired her for her generous spirit.

*respect: I respect her for what she has achieved.

*think highly of: Everyone thinks highly of him.

*hold someone in high esteem: Her colleagues in Washington hold her in very high esteem.

*hold someone in high regard: He contributed much to the life of York, and was held in high regard there.

*look up to: She was my older sister and I looked up to her.