Charlie Kirk shot

Chocolatelovinggran

Oreo, Christian beliefs throughout the world are based on the words of Jesus in the Gospels.
I cannot understand, then, how the USA and Britain can have a differing understanding of scripture.
I would suggest, respectfully, that however popular Mr Kirk's views might be, they are not supported by any words of Jesus, so are problematic to be described as Christian.

All the main faiths have different interpretations. Here in the UK there are Catholic, C of E , Methodists, Baptists, Plymouth Brethren and others am sure.
In the US the churches vary wildly including snake handling ones, strict and traditional ones and evangelical ones.
A church in New York will have different interpretations of the Gospels to Southern one.Yes based on Jesus and the Gospels but can be so different.

The US is a secular society, it's enshrined in the first amendment. Kirk and others who follow Christian Nationalism want to change that. Their view is that their Christian values should become those of all American citizens and be at the heart of government, law, education etc. This would take away the rights that Americans have to follow the religion they choose or follow no religion. This is really Handmaid's tale stuff!

ronib

The Catholic Church has always designated abortion as immoral and a mortal sin. Best take the view that 2000 years ago, abortion on demand wasn’t available and so it’s highly unlikely that Jesus would have preached on this. Chocolatelovinggran

The Catholic church teaches that all life is sacred and every person has an innate dignity that should be respected- it is a universal teaching of the universal church- no one is left out, not a foetus or a person approaching the end of the life.
It certainly does not condone the taking of another human life by a gun, not does it uphold the rights of Amercans to bear arms.
In the US the far right will consider killing a foetus a terrible crime whereas killing a child at school with a gun is not.

I am aware that Kirk said this on more than one occasion.

America is screwed.

Good post foxie. In the US we have freedom of religion and freedom FROM religion. The Charlie Kirk's of the world are trying to force us all to subscribe to their version of Christianity.

It is literally our 1st Amendment, so important to our founding fathers. Forcing us into a religion is no better than what was happening when the US was founded.

But you aren’t being forced into any religion in the US no matter what any influencers or celebrities may want, are you?

I can't wait for you to explain how denying science, teaching evolution was wrong (they only want to teach Creationism) and ensuring our rights only align to their teachings is not forcing imus into a religion Oreo.

Maybe you can explain.

Because they haven't done that. Creationism is not taught in public schools as far as I am aware.
I thought kirk supported oh what is it called - where god created evolution.

foxie48

The US is a secular society, it's enshrined in the first amendment. Kirk and others who follow Christian Nationalism want to change that. Their view is that their Christian values should become those of all American citizens and be at the heart of government, law, education etc. This would take away the rights that Americans have to follow the religion they choose or follow no religion. This is really Handmaid's tale stuff!

Fundamentalists might be seen as the work of the devil. As foxie points out, Charlie Kirk and others want the end of the USA as secular, the want Christian’s Nationalism. Their doctrine s like the Talban, the Muslim Brotherhood, the Jewish Settlers etc, their God is the only God. Women are not equals,

Of all the countries in the world, dictating one religion in the USA is bizarre, given people from all over the world who were hounded out of their own countries for their religious beliefs settled there, made the USA, and many still follow the religions of their forefathers. .

You aren't aware then are you? Texas has not mandated it, but they are trying to dangle a financial carrot for districts to get on board.

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bible-in-public-schools-church-state-religion-rcna181934

Oklahoma has mandated the Christian Bible be taught in schools.

www.npr.org/2024/06/27/nx-s1-5021971/oklahoma-state-superintendent-says-schools-must-assimilate-the-bible-into-curriculum

Louisiana, Texas and Oklahoma have mandated laws that the Ten Commandments have to be hung in every classroom. They have already been met with lawsuits because all of this is unconstitutional.

Trump himself has even said they will be pushing Christian Values above all else.

“As president, I will always defend our nation’s glorious heritage, and we will protect the Judeo-Christian principles of our founding, and we will protect them with vigor,” he said. “We have to bring back religion in America, bring it back stronger than ever before.”

www.edweek.org/policy-politics/trump-says-ed-dept-will-release-new-guidance-on-school-prayer/2025/09

For those of you who do not live day to day in the US and seem confused as to what our rights are, and have no real clue as to what is happening in the US, please keep up.

You know why I don't post on thread about what is happening in the UK? Because I know very little about how the Government works there and what your rights and freedoms look like. Imagine if I rocked up to a thread and told someone in the UK they were wrong about what is happening in their own country.

The Constitution maintains the separation of church and state. Tax payer entities are government entities. Public schools are funded with tax payer money, this are government entities. It is unconstitutional to promote a certain religion in schools. They have already started doing it anyhow. Luckily, we still have courts that see it for what it is.

What the Trump regime is doing is unconstitutional.

I have more examples or how Christianity is being forced on us if you want them, though I seriously doubt you do.

Hope that clears things up.

Here is more information on the Establishment Clause for those who should know it before telling me about how things work in a country they don't live in.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establishment_Clause

The anti-abortion laws place the Christian faith above any other. The Jewish people aren't to happy about their religion freedom being violated.

I guess the Jewish people just have to deal with being forced to live under Christian beliefs huh?

Too bad we don't have a Constitutional protection for that. Hmm...

tennesseelookout.com/2022/08/26/jewish-congregations-mount-legal-challenges-to-state-abortion-bans/

What I've always found rather incongruous is why a secular country like USA has "In God we trust" on its currency.

imaround

You aren't aware then are you? Texas has not mandated it, but they are trying to dangle a financial carrot for districts to get on board.

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/bible-in-public-schools-church-state-religion-rcna181934

Oklahoma has mandated the Christian Bible be taught in schools.

www.npr.org/2024/06/27/nx-s1-5021971/oklahoma-state-superintendent-says-schools-must-assimilate-the-bible-into-curriculum

Louisiana, Texas and Oklahoma have mandated laws that the Ten Commandments have to be hung in every classroom. They have already been met with lawsuits because all of this is unconstitutional.

Trump himself has even said they will be pushing Christian Values above all else.

“As president, I will always defend our nation’s glorious heritage, and we will protect the Judeo-Christian principles of our founding, and we will protect them with vigor,” he said. “We have to bring back religion in America, bring it back stronger than ever before.”

www.edweek.org/policy-politics/trump-says-ed-dept-will-release-new-guidance-on-school-prayer/2025/09

For those of you who do not live day to day in the US and seem confused as to what our rights are, and have no real clue as to what is happening in the US, please keep up.

You know why I don't post on thread about what is happening in the UK? Because I know very little about how the Government works there and what your rights and freedoms look like. Imagine if I rocked up to a thread and told someone in the UK they were wrong about what is happening in their own country.

The Constitution maintains the separation of church and state. Tax payer entities are government entities. Public schools are funded with tax payer money, this are government entities. It is unconstitutional to promote a certain religion in schools. They have already started doing it anyhow. Luckily, we still have courts that see it for what it is.

What the Trump regime is doing is unconstitutional.

I have more examples or how Christianity is being forced on us if you want them, though I seriously doubt you do.

Hope that clears things up.

Thank you imaround.

It’s invaluable to hear the voice of someone who is living in the US and therefore actually knows what’s going on.

It’s very frustrating when people from abroad presume to know more about your country than you do.

Please keep posting

I know you don't like being challenged. You were wrong about the stoning gays, wrong about the conspiracy that the killer was maga, wrong about the democrat being locked up the other week. And none of the information you have posted shows creationism is being taught in schools.
So just to be clear , I will post on any subject that I like, I am happy to be challenged but I will continue posting on any subject I want to.

You know why I don't post on thread about what is happening in the UK? Because I know very little about how the Government works there and what your rights and freedoms look like. Imagine if I rocked up to a thread and told someone in the UK they were wrong about what is happening in their own country.

imaround I very much appreciate you posting your views on what is happening in your country but there may also be people in your country who disagree with them.

I think posters should be free to post their opinions and you are free to post yours of our country too. I don't think the rules prohibit that and many posters do discuss American politics.
Within guidelines of course.

I never asked you to stop posting? I am happy to be challenged at any time. I have previously even asked to be challenged in my posts. I am happy to have a discussion with anyone at any time, in fact. As proven by my many posts since last fall. What a strange accusation to make.

I was wrong about stoning gays. But that doesn't change my opinion of Kirk, he was a horrible racist, misogynist homophobe who did not deserve to die. Though not a single person who supported Kirk can explain how I misinterpreted what he says, despite me asking.

I speculated on the suspect being MAGA and had a long conversation about it with several posters. I am still not sure he wasn't far-right to start with. You don't wear a Groyper costume without knowing what it is and who it is associated with. That is my opinion and doesn't make me wrong. That also has to do with my distrust of the lying Government right now, and the fact that Kash Patel has no law enforcement experience, but that doesn't concern any of you to be honest. The truth will come out eventually.

I was not wrong about the Democrat being locked up. She was required to sign a permission slip and have a DHS escort to leave the grounds. She chose to stay in the State Capitol so that she was not forced to be treated like a child. A permission slip to leave her place of work? Come on. Being forced to sign a permission slip and have a police escort, and being arrested if she refuses, upon leaving the Capitol is indirectly forcing her to stay there. She would have been arrested if she had left or tried to lose the police escort. So her only choice was to stay in the capital, leave with a police escort, or be arrested. The only choice she didn't have was the most important one, leaving on her own free will because she is an adult and a citizen of the United States that had not be arrested or charged with a crime. We have laws about that here as well. It is in violation of her 5th Amendment rights by the way.

Here is just one example of Creationism being taught in public schools in Texas. It is for an art class, not a science class. For Kindergartners, which is age 5 to 6. There are currently 5 districts in Texas who have adopted the curriculum and are currently teaching it. The State of Texas has offered districts $60 per student if they adopt the curriculum. The curriculum violates the Establishment Clause.

This has been going on a while in Texas. There are cases and reports going back to 2014 that I have seen about tax funded districts in Texas teaching creationism.

d1yqpar94jqbqm.cloudfront.net/documents/RLA_GK_U11_TG_ENG.pdf

Hopefully this link works, as it directly goes to the actual curriculum being taught.

I am not going to get into why the $60 per pupil is so appealing to the Districts in Texas, that discussion isn't worth the discontent it will cause.

So anytime you think I am wrong, please say so and I will happily have a discussion about it.

We can both think all we want to about the teaching of Christian values in schools, but the fact is it remains illegal to do in the US and Trump's cronies are doing everything they can to force the rest of the country into those beliefs.

I am, above all, an American and I will protect every person's rights, including regarding things I don't agree with (such a far-right AND far-left teachings) because I believe in our Constitution. Once someone else tries to limit my rights though, I pay attention. It is hypocritical to force your (a general your, not you personally) beliefs on me and expect me to conform, no matter what political leaning or religion one follows.

Which is exactly what is happening in this country right now, and the entire point of my post.

Not me, no.

I reflected on my post and want to apologize for my tone. It was not what I ever intended it to be. I am not that person normally.

I am always happy to be disagreed with. I am happy to admit when I made a mistake.

My frustration lies, not on the disagreement, but in the lack of knowledge of the rights we have in the US and the way they are being brushed aside like they are nothing by the current administration.

If anyone in the US doesn't believe in the constitution, there are means to make changes. That is not happening. Instead, our rights are being violated daily.

No one's opinion or political affiliation is more important than our God given rights lined out in the Constitution of the United States.

I am putting myself in time out until my attitude improves.

Imaround don't be so hard on yourself. What happens in your country directly affects you. It will affect the rest of the world but not in the same way. It frightens me to see democracy, so short-lived in the long history of mankind, be unravelled in the way that it is. You have been so brave and generous with your knowledge. Have a break from us all if you need to but do keep letting us know you are okay.

I had never heard of Charlie Kirk until he was killed but I just felt saddened that he was a young man with a young wife and children. Saddened about how easy it seems to be to get guns ,even if you are mentally ill. It used to be that way here in Australia but they tightened up the rules after the awful Port Arthur massacre.

DaisyAnneReturns

Imaround don't be so hard on yourself. What happens in your country directly affects you. It will affect the rest of the world but not in the same way. It frightens me to see democracy, so short-lived in the long history of mankind, be unravelled in the way that it is. You have been so brave and generous with your knowledge. Have a break from us all if you need to but do keep letting us know you are okay.

Absolutely.

We need to learn from imaround, whether we agree of not: and some gratitude for the energy and detail she posts might be appropriate, but disagree when its a political not a personal

issue.

I have become aware of the new wave of thinking about school and religion. I have a young friend in Florida.
It is interesting that the Ten Commandments are going to be on classroom walls.
As I mentioned upthread, these are not the teachings of Jesus, who told his followers that he had made a new covenant with them.
I wonder how the states will interpret keeping the Sabbath day holy?
not coveting other people's servants?

I subscribe to the Washington Post and also the CNN website. So much is happening in the US that we in the UK don't hear about. Tbh I don't know how I'd manage to keep sane if I lived in the US. Imaround please keep posting the UK often follows US and the current rise of populist politics led by Farage I personally find very worrying as he does use the Trump playbook to good effect.