This must be a sad day for England

In addition to Monica’s points I think public disillusionment is also because daily life is now so hard for so many people. Austerity hasn’t worked. Brexit hasn’t worked. Despite the warnings of Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves we did somehow think that things would get tangibly better after July ‘24. And for many of us it hasn’t, and these are the consequences.

Am open to a debate about the far right needing to be listened to or there could be a revolution. Or a Trump style leader in the UK presumably. However, revolutions don’t tend to come from the far right, and that is because the ruling elites in the UK and US etc., are quite happy to accommodate a far right government, it means their interests are secure and workers rights are way down the agenda. Since Trump came to power life has only got much harder for ordinary Americans, not easier. And of course it is far more probable that the Judiciary can be bent to the will of a far right government with human rights eroded. We have all heard about opting out of the ECHR.
Indeed the far right isn’t fighting ‘the establishment’ it very much is ‘the establishment’, Trump is a business man chasing dollars, Farage is having his strings pulled by the ruling elite here and in the US.
Revolutions come from the left with good reason, because the left seek to dismantle the establishment. But the left has been castrated so that revolutions don’t happen anymore.
Don’t be fooled by those who say they are radicals seeking to shake up the status quo.
They only want to give the poor sod’s at the bottom something to rail against so that they don’t realise how much they are being shafted by those at the top.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

65 Sharia courts in England for a start. Reported in the Daily Mail yesterday. I mentioned them months ago and was shot down on here. We should ALL be bound by only one law in the UK. A Muslim professor was saying the same thing on television a few days ago. He was horrified by their existence HERE. Totally unnecessary he said even for civil disputes amongst neighbours and cousins.

Do you feel the same about Beth Din?

Primrose53

Only 9 arrests today.

Notting Hill Carnival - 400 arrests

Palestine Action - 900 arrests

Pretty amaz! 😁

@Fried green tomatoes* FriedGreenTomatoes2 Sat 13-Sept-25 16:17:34

65 Sharia courts in England for a start.

They are not courts of law. They are voluntary tribunals or councils, and cannot change or overrule any UK laws. In exactly the same way that the Catholic church ecclesiatic tribunal addresses religious beliefs about annulment, divorce, abortion, burial but those do not affect UK laws on divorce, abortion in any way.

Oh let them have their parades and flag waving! it is one of the freedoms we enjoy here, I don't see the problem.

I really think we need to give people their much needed bread and circuses back.

I think we should have days off for the major patron Saints day here in the UK. Have big parades, people singing and dressing up and generally having a good time.

I think we should also organise sports events where immigrants could compete alongside the natives and we could all have a jolly good time- hold raffles, sell home baking etc- cheese rolling competitions etc- all those things we do really well.

I seem to remember one party leader was all in favour of having Bank Holidays for every UK countries Saints Day-oh yes, his name was Jeremy Corbyn...

Why have there only been 9 arrested when The Met says 26 officers assaulted? Two tier justice?

MOnica What you have described is exactly the narrative TR et al would love people to believe. Dig a bit deeper - it's not 100% true - and ignores the effect of the big elephant in the room - Brexit.

keepingquiet

Oh let them have their parades and flag waving! it is one of the freedoms we enjoy here, I don't see the problem.

I really think we need to give people their much needed bread and circuses back.

I think we should have days off for the major patron Saints day here in the UK. Have big parades, people singing and dressing up and generally having a good time.

I think we should also organise sports events where immigrants could compete alongside the natives and we could all have a jolly good time- hold raffles, sell home baking etc- cheese rolling competitions etc- all those things we do really well.

I seem to remember one party leader was all in favour of having Bank Holidays for every UK countries Saints Day-oh yes, his name was Jeremy Corbyn...

And when they assault police officers, what then? We just smile and say they're just having a bit of fun.

theworriedwell

keepingquiet

Oh let them have their parades and flag waving! it is one of the freedoms we enjoy here, I don't see the problem.

I really think we need to give people their much needed bread and circuses back.

I think we should have days off for the major patron Saints day here in the UK. Have big parades, people singing and dressing up and generally having a good time.

I think we should also organise sports events where immigrants could compete alongside the natives and we could all have a jolly good time- hold raffles, sell home baking etc- cheese rolling competitions etc- all those things we do really well.

I seem to remember one party leader was all in favour of having Bank Holidays for every UK countries Saints Day-oh yes, his name was Jeremy Corbyn...

And when they assault police officers, what then? We just smile and say they're just having a bit of fun.

Well, that's exactly what happens with Not Carnival.
How many Police assaulted this year, 55 I think. Plus 100 arrests before it even started.

growstuff

MOnica What you have described is exactly the narrative TR et al would love people to believe. Dig a bit deeper - it's not 100% true - and ignores the effect of the big elephant in the room - Brexit.

Monica what you have described is exactly it….don’t let anyone tell you any different.
It’s right on the button!

I think you missed the maths. More people arrested than police assaulted at one event, the opposite at the other event. Surely there should be st least as many arrested as assaults on the police or is part of the culture they are celebrating assaulting the police.

I may be biased as Ive been my husband's carer for over 35 years due to injuries on duty.

Oreo

growstuff

MOnica What you have described is exactly the narrative TR et al would love people to believe. Dig a bit deeper - it's not 100% true - and ignores the effect of the big elephant in the room - Brexit.

Monica what you have described is exactly it….don’t let anyone tell you any different.
It’s right on the button!

The elephant in the room is who benefits from divided populous? Dig a bit deeper still.

growstuff

MOnica What you have described is exactly the narrative TR et al would love people to believe. Dig a bit deeper - it's not 100% true - and ignores the effect of the big elephant in the room - Brexit.

Is Brexit an elephant in the room? whether it is elephant or mouse is irrelevant it is just part of the manifestation of the enormous gulf between those who run the country and ordinary people.

TR has got nothing to do with forming the way people think. It is the other way round. He has come to the fore because of peoples disaffection with the political process and how it runs rough shod over them. Like Farage, he has exploited it.

The answer is for those in power to listen to what is being said, and to accept how out of touch they are and actually accept that they have to change, that they do have to abandon some of their treasured projects because the people who vote for governments do not like them or want them. They actually have to listen to Farage, look at what makes people want to vote Reform and accept that some of their cherished, aims, probably ones that I would like, are just not acceptable to many in this country

theworriedwell

I think you missed the maths. More people arrested than police assaulted at one event, the opposite at the other event. Surely there should be st least as many arrested as assaults on the police or is part of the culture they are celebrating assaulting the police.

I may be biased as Ive been my husband's carer for over 35 years due to injuries on duty.

Don't castigate yourself for you opinion. Perfectly acceptable from your perspective.

Yes I didn't explain myself properly, 100 members of the public arrested before the carnival, because they posed a significant danger to the public. The Police seized 11 fire arms and 40 knives etc. Some Police assaulted during raids.

Please ignore my typing skills, which have reached an all time low - broken arm one side, arthritic wrist and thumb the other, sticky keyboard because I knocked orange juice over it! Woe is me

M0nica

growstuff

MOnica What you have described is exactly the narrative TR et al would love people to believe. Dig a bit deeper - it's not 100% true - and ignores the effect of the big elephant in the room - Brexit.

Is Brexit an elephant in the room? whether it is elephant or mouse is irrelevant it is just part of the manifestation of the enormous gulf between those who run the country and ordinary people.

TR has got nothing to do with forming the way people think. It is the other way round. He has come to the fore because of peoples disaffection with the political process and how it runs rough shod over them. Like Farage, he has exploited it.

The answer is for those in power to listen to what is being said, and to accept how out of touch they are and actually accept that they have to change, that they do have to abandon some of their treasured projects because the people who vote for governments do not like them or want them. They actually have to listen to Farage, look at what makes people want to vote Reform and accept that some of their cherished, aims, probably ones that I would like, are just not acceptable to many in this country

If the push is for a one world gov. (and I think it is quite obvious by now it is), a little ground will be ceded to placate the worried working classes, but with digital id, banking, health etc all on the agenda to complete this goal, I don't think a march will break their resolve.

Sadiq Khan + Met Police have purchased Israeli armoured war vehicles to deploy on the streets of London.

That seems odd unless you see the need to use them in the future.

Ergo it seems quite straight forward, agree with loss of freedoms or protest and face police in SandCats on our streets.

Primrose53

Only 9 arrests today.

Notting Hill Carnival - 400 arrests

Palestine Action - 900 arrests

Wait a minute

Todays march, 25 arrests in one day according to the BBC attendance estimated between 100,000 - 150,000

The Met said 25 people had been arrested for a range of offences in what it described as "wholly unacceptable" violence.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwydezxl0xlo

Notting Hill Carnival. 140 arrests Held over 3 days estimated attendance 2 million people 13 times more people than on today's march That makes the number of arrests about 10 per 150,000 people, fewer than half the number of today's arrests

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c754y4k3l35o

Palestine Protests: how many days of protests does this -made up?-- figure cover?

You have to compare like with like. And use the official figures, not made up ones.

“There were “no significant arrests” made after thousands took to central London for a People’s Vote march, police said.
A spokeswoman for the Metropolitan Police has confirmed there were no significant arrests made during the day of the large march.”
No arrests on the people’s vote march I went on in 2018. No litter either…

M0nica

The question no one is asking is why Tommy Robinson is attracting so much support, or indeed why Nigel Farage and Reform get so much support.

Its easy peasy jackaneasy to get all upset and wild-eyed because all these events are happenng, anyone can do thaat.

The question people should beasking and thinking about, and perhaps accepting some uncomfortable truths is why people like Tommy Robinson and Nigel Farage attract so much support.

The answer is quite straightforward. Over the last few decades, politics and government has slipped into the handsof an urban intellectual elite, from a variety of backgrounds, who think themselves superior to all of us, who believe they know what we ought to want better than we do and are determined to give us what they want to give us, to dismiss the fears and concerns of what they would conisider the lumpen prolatariat.

This knd of thing goes on for so long then the despised common people take over, and since those in charge refuse to listen they look to leaders who are articulate how they feel, what they want in life and what sort of society they want to live in.

This society may well contain elelments that we do not like and make us put our hands to our face in horror. But why should we have everything our way and ignore those who disagree with us because they are less well educated and not as articulate.

This how most revolutions start. It is how the French Revolution started, and the unsuccessful risings in Hungary and Czechoslovakia in 1956 and 1968 and the successful overthrow of the USSR in 1991.

It is now happening in Western Europe and is advanced in Eastern Europe, now it is the British turn. It is up to the main stream parties to listen to those deserting them for the extreme right, listen to them and act on their deep concerns and not just dismiss them as Gordeon Brown did when he called a Labour supporter who had challenged him over the economy and immigration a "bigoted woman".

Yes, M0nica

When politicians lose touch with how ordinary people in the country live, what their worries are, become aloof and quite divorced from the reality of what life is like for many, then they risk losing any support and that is when more extreme groups begin to take over.

MaizieD

winterwhite

Nowhere here is it said what the protest/march is actually About.

People are claiming that it was about Uniting the UK. Judging from posts on here I don't think it's achieved its objective.

No, it hasn't.

But neither has the Government.

The government are having to deal with Reform, a party whose main means of getting into power is to divide the country as much as possible.

MayBee70

The government are having to deal with Reform, a party whose main means of getting into power is to divide the country as much as possible.

And how is that possible, I wonder? 🤔

Yes, how could it be. Is it because people have already been divided. And ignored.
Identity politics have divided people into groups based solely on one aspect of their identity. Don't be surprised when people organise within those separate groups.

Can’t just blame this government. It worked with previous Conservative governments and the same tactic was used by Farage for Brexit. Unfortunately people have been brainwashed into thinking the solution to everything is a ‘protest vote’ even though they don’t actually know what the alternative might be.

Oh I for one am not blaming this particular government anymore than others.