This must be a sad day for England

The elite have been defined as the ruling classes.

M0nica

MayBee70

Can’t just blame this government. It worked with previous Conservative governments and the same tactic was used by Farage for Brexit. Unfortunately people have been brainwashed into thinking the solution to everything is a ‘protest vote’ even though they don’t actually know what the alternative might be.

I think this is an arrogant assumption. people are not brainwashed, if they are then among the brainwashed are all of us, we are not superior to all those on these demonstrations.

People are demonstrating because they are fed up with governments that ignore them and their concerns in pursuit of - well, what? Whatever it is - it isn't what people want.

Robinson and Farage have risen as leaders from the many ordinary people who are fed up with the current situation. If people were happy with the governance of this country as it is now, these people would not have come to promenance.

People may not be clear on what the alternative is, but what they do know is that they are very sure it is not what they are getting now.

Patronising and looking down on ordinary people and pretending that you (or I are somehow a cut above the rest and know so much better than them, is what got us into this mess in the first place. Continuing it only makes the situation worse.

I think you’ll find they rose to prominence during the Conservatives government? Don’t recall them suddenly appearing in the last twelve or so months…

We should all hang our heads in shame at the atrocities carried out by our country in the distant past, and be doing everything we can to be a caring and peaceful place. The world has too many crazy fascist leaders, let’s not allow them to have influence here.

I do wonder what all those "nice family people" who went on a march with known thugs, thought they were protesting about and what they thought waving those jolly flags represented? Did they think Tommy Robinson would make cheese rolling a national sport or ensure that morris dancing was on the school curriculum. I've yet to hear anyone explain cogently what "pride in being English" actually means. To an interested observer it looks pretty much like xenophobia/racism with a big dash of Islamophobia for good measure. It's certainly not the qualities that I associate with being English, ie fair play, love of the under dog, tolerance, self deprecation etc. So someone, please tell me, why did those people turn out on a Saturday morning in London to march with a load of thugs?

25 arrests yesterday. 890 arrests Action Palestine ,

It’s so wrong to say of all on the march yesterday ‘thought they were protesting about’, I am sure they knew why they were there

I think a lot of demonstrations here in France are driven by nostalgia and unwillingness to accept that change has to happen. The country cannot afford to allow everyone to retire at 62 or to have 11 Bank Holidays, which become a 4 day holiday if they are on a Thursday or Tuesday.
It is my impression that successive politicians have listened and understood the grievances, but people don't want to hear that this is the consequence of an economy is in deep trouble and these are some of the many changes that are needed.
The popularity of politicians is low across Europe and in many other countries. The world of employment is changing a a fast pace. Climate change is making life harder and the world a more dangerous place.
There are no easy solutions. Last week the protesters set fire to the local ring road. Not sure how that is supposed to help.

Why on earth would you go on a march organised by a well known fascist if you didn't support his views? There's been enough press coverage of what Tommy Robinson stands for.

foxie48

I do wonder what all those "nice family people" who went on a march with known thugs, thought they were protesting about and what they thought waving those jolly flags represented? Did they think Tommy Robinson would make cheese rolling a national sport or ensure that morris dancing was on the school curriculum. I've yet to hear anyone explain cogently what "pride in being English" actually means. To an interested observer it looks pretty much like xenophobia/racism with a big dash of Islamophobia for good measure. It's certainly not the qualities that I associate with being English, ie fair play, love of the under dog, tolerance, self deprecation etc. So someone, please tell me, why did those people turn out on a Saturday morning in London to march with a load of thugs?

Well said foxie48

Because they looked at what the other side has to offer and say, and made a choice.

What on earth is the point of swapping these numbers of arrests?

One arrest is one too many. One facist is one too many. One person drowning is one too many. One dead child is one too many.

Part of me can't be bothered any more, part of me won't be bullied.

Who is bullying you when they discuss numbers? Sorry if I have missed it I have just read the thread quite quickly.

Part of the popularity of certain political rhetoric is that it suggests simple solutions to complex problems.
Local authority houses were sold off and not replaced. This is a thorny conundrum now, and difficult to fix , so the suggestion that " it's due to immigrants" is an attractive one: send immigrants back to where they came from- problem solved, say some.
Unemployed - maybe an immigrant took your job?
I spend Mondays distributing parcels at a food bank, and a percentage, not all, of course, of the people I meet would give lie to this because, due to cognitive impairment, addiction or mental health problems they are, effectively, unemployable.
Spending significant sums on mental wellbeing programmes might help this, but these are expensive and long - term strategies. The " quick fix" solutions are attractive.

Supporting thugs. They might not have realised it but that's what they did.

StripeyGran

What on earth is the point of swapping these numbers of arrests?

One arrest is one too many. One facist is one too many. One person drowning is one too many. One dead child is one too many.

Part of me can't be bothered any more, part of me won't be bullied.

If arrests are being presented in a way that presents yesterday's match as more peaceful than Nottinghill or the supporting Palestine Action one then look at the facts and the truth is yesterday's match was violent with thugs attacking the police. Our police.

Doodledog

So who do these people see as the ‘elite’? Anyone with their own home? With children in private schools? People with earnings or savings above average? Anyone with a degree?

They are coming for immigrants now, but who will be next?

I agree (and have been saying since Brexit) that sneering at people with different views is what leads to extremism. For years we have been pitted against one another. Young against old, race, rich against poor, religious differences, left against right- it goes on and on. Telling people they don’t understand their own views adds fuel to the fire.

I hope it’s not too late to stop what seems like an inexorable slide, but I doubt it.

Who will be next indeed?
The far right don’t have a great record on human rights hence the call to get rid of the ECHR. But people calling for this should stop and ask themselves ‘what if I or one of mine needs to take our case to such a court?’
Human rights affects all humans.
Am truly surprised at the short sightedness of those jumping on this band wagon.

What on earth is the point of swapping these numbers of arrests?

Because left wingers want to make 25 arrests sound absolutely awful and that the fascist mobs are out of control ( 25 arrests is actually not that many on a march that size ) whilst conveniently ignoring all the arrests on action Palestine demonstrations.

I noticed most of the counter protestors, as usual, had their faces covered. Black masks as usual.

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

Lest we forget what the car right are famous or infamous for.

Far right not car right 🤨

What is wrong with being anti fascist, all those who fought in world war II were anti fascist?
Not sure why anyone would find a March against this to be problematic.

Anniebach

25 arrests yesterday. 890 arrests Action Palestine ,

It’s so wrong to say of all on the march yesterday ‘thought they were protesting about’, I am sure they knew why they were there

100,000 people on a peaceful protest yesterday. It was reported firstly that 9 people were arrested then later it said 25.
As you say nearly 900 arrested on Action Palestine. 400 at Notting Hill Carnival. Go figure that.

Whatever, It is extremely arrogant of people to suggest that they didn’t know why they were there! 🤣🤣

Primrose53

I noticed most of the counter protestors, as usual, had their faces covered. Black masks as usual.

Because somebody will come after them and kick the out of them? Possibly?

Well yes but the word fascist has been made meaningless, sorry but when I now hear someone called far right I just ignore it, that is dangerous in itself, but when you ( not you personally) label everything far right that is what happens.

It was on our news tonight. A lot of people marching - I have never seen so many people, even when we marched against Blair and the invasion of Iraq. Things are crook in Toolarook as they say. There are reasons people are feeling they have to march and give up their time.

Agree * Primrose* I didn’t like the questioning of the intelligence of those taking part