Manchester Synagogue Attack

Having been gaslighted for a number of years I know it when it's being thrown at me

Because I disagree with you Oreo on certain points - nothing wrong with that - you leap in an accuse me of having no empathy towards those caught up in the terrible events at the synagogue.

You've been on the Gaza threads with me for several years now where I have always been absolutely clear by saying "the current administration" are at fault rather than Jews in general. I've talked many times about my family background who have always not just talked the talk but walked the walk alongside jesiwhs People,

I have talked about contacts within the Interfaith Community.

The problems with gaslighting is that often people doing it dont realise

. You apparently really believe I have no empathy despite evidence to the contrary and in addition are making assumptions about how I feel, again with no evidence.

Wyllow3

Oreo

I just knew something would happen today, the blatant and the half hidden anti-semitism started days after 7th October 2023.
Started with two cars full of Muslim Palestinian supporters driving around Golders Green aggressively shouting abuse at Jews and waving Palestinian flags.They were arrested and probably just given a warning.It all continued from there ever since leading to today.Just thankful that the responders were ready for it.Despicable and disgusting indeed ferry.

It was Oreo who first brought it up, as per above, on the first page.

Alluding to October 7th followed by the first demonstrations at Golders Green.

Totally clear.

And I have to say, very pejorative: you appear to be conflating us ordinary Gaza supporters who have great sympathy for whats happening in Manchester

With those early extremists, which I find most offensive.

Yup, you started it?

Oreo is such an easy target Willow! Apart from Oreo highlighting the obscene behaviour of some riding around in cars celebrating shortly after October 7th, AGAA4 was the first to post the whataboutery "Mosques have been attacked too".
I can't recall any fatalities at or around Mosques from Jewish attacks but am prepared to apologise for my ignorance when evidence is posted to prove I'm wrong. I can't recall one single bombing or attack on buses, tube trains or any other situation that involved radicalised or not Jews. In fact I can't recall a single reported incident where a Jewish person was the instigator of 'an incident' other than that man who was challenged by a policeman for passing through a pro-Palestine march while being 'openly Jewish". I don't care if he was off his normal route, he wasn't breaking any laws but was called out for displaying his Jewishness. Anti-semitism raises its ugly head in a multitude of ways, conscious or not, and the "I'm not anti-semitic but......" brigade charge in.

My name is Wyllow: there is a Willow on GN already.

Just mentioning October 7th was enough to bring, after just 8 posts, the subject right onto Gaza. It needed no more.

I feel pretty sickened by the way this thread went which is why I went back and reread it. It became a divisive thread pretty quickly and it's worth looking at again to see how it happened.

Thanks foxie,, sorry for not acknowledging you and others here

I think there is no way out of the very specific words passing between me and Oreo except by dropping it - we aren't going to agree, both people have "said their bit", and there is no point dragging more people in to try and "take sides".

On the general issue ie it became divisive rapidly, it clearly did, but is it really a surprise?

It’s impossible to keep world events separate from the synagogue attack. Cause and effect.Although antisemitism has gone on for years and years leading to security needed for synagogues and Jewish schools, since 7th October 2023 it has got much worse as the stats provided by Allira show should anyone doubt it.Weekly marches haven’t helped.
I shall ignore any personal attacks on me and therefore won’t be responding to them.Marvellous tho isn’t it, a Jewish poster being repeatedly got at on a thread about a tragedy involving Jews being killed in Manchester.
Just watching Trevor Phillips on this subject, required viewing in my opinion.

Iam64 No need but it's very noticeable that posters on news and politics threads are becoming fewer and those of us who are staying are becoming increasingly polarised. I do wonder how many people read these threads, see the unpleasantness which sometimes borders on "bullying" and decide not to add their comments. I used to enjoy these threads, I learned a good deal, some changed my opinion but these days I feel they just risk becoming an argy bargy or a "pile on" with nothing added to the quality of the discussion. I really don't mind having my opinions challenged, I'm a grown up FGS but it's the increase in personal attacks and deliberate attempts to cause division that concern me. tbh Life is too short to engage with some of this rubbish and I do wonder if we have some trolls amongst us as well as the odd person using more than one username!

Who do you think is a troll Foxue, most of the people on here are fairly well established posters.

Galaxy I wouldn't dream of posting a name publicly even if I was absolutely certain and I used the word "wonder" in my post for a reason, it's what I wonder not know. I have never reported a post as I believe that it's better for people to see what someone has written for themselves but I've seen an example, quite recently, of someone responding to a post as if they were a different poster. It looked very suspiciously like someone with two user names forgetting which one they were using but of course, it might have been perfectly innocent, who knows, I certainly don't but it made me "wonder"!

Yes, let's get back to the idea of supporting a community in need, and keep away from any 'are you being anti-semitic by being anti Netanyahu?' conflations. It's a strange suggestion, as so many well known Jewish people do not support this man.
So, what can the wider communities now attempt, in a helpful way?

foxie, is that technically possible? When you give up one name, can you still use the one before?
Maybe some of the 'changed' names could clarify this?

Yes foxie48. So many posters avoid the N&P board as it’s just awful most of the time. Really horrible in fact. Always descends into ridiculous arguments that seem to go on for hours - even days!

And from my time on Mumsnet, most of the biggest trolls were well established posters.

How did you manage to identify the trolls? And what sort of Poster could be so classified?

Hiw does that help cohesion on a thread to make that claim.

I would really like to know where all the posts that you say are conflating the issue Maremia as of course BN is a marmite figure even amongst Jews in Israel and everywhere.
I haven’t seen these posts either on this thread or others.
The wider communities can help by not attending any more marches through our cities as peace is now on the cusp in Gaza.
And realise that whatever they dislike is going on in the Middle
East has nothing to do with British Jews. That would be an excellent start.

Oreo I haven't seen any personal attacks on you and certainly none that would appear linked to the fact you are Jewish. I have seen posters who have disagreed with your POV but surely that is acceptable? As I have said, I really dislike personal attacks and I think it's perfectly acceptable to call them out publicly, if we all did that then perhaps people would stop doing them and I am all in favour of that.

I think we have 2 communities in need.

It's a moot point for me whether the big marches have made a difference in the way described above, and in which way: I certainly think that the peaceful element of them was completely right to turn out and bring what was happening in Gaza particularly into the light:

But locally, every Friday, we have a silent vigil in our town, and it will continue, and as it gets darker early, there will be candles.

There are also shared meals for those who wish to come.

I think that the UK has a continuing problem with Islamic radicalisation and government needs to rethink policy urgently.
It’s simply unacceptable that synagogues in the UK have needed such high levels of security and will continue to do so.

foxie48

Oreo I haven't seen any personal attacks on you and certainly none that would appear linked to the fact you are Jewish. I have seen posters who have disagreed with your POV but surely that is acceptable? As I have said, I really dislike personal attacks and I think it's perfectly acceptable to call them out publicly, if we all did that then perhaps people would stop doing them and I am all in favour of that.

The thing is….
Even if you haven’t seen any I can assure you they have been there on more than one thread and been reported and deleted.
Deletions aren’t done for having a different POV.
Calling out publicly doesn’t always work and if the posts remain it emboldens that poster to carry on doing it.
Reporting personal attacks when they occur is far better than a thread slanging match in my view.

I live in a very multi cultural town: I don't see increased radicalism: in fact I actually experience increased integration: day by day: in the shops ("Home Bargains", believe me, is full of every colour you might want, as are those who work there!)

Of course, its always necessary to keep a watch on terrorist radicalism and possible cells from whichever group it comes, which of includes some elements of the far right (and always has)

Nobody sees increased radicalism it happens behind closed doors.

And, I should have added, extreme left groups as well.

Passing different nationalities in shops or races or religions is no indicator.

Thats why we have the Secret Service and some divisions of the police, Oreo.