Manchester Synagogue Attack

I think you probably know already that Quakers come in all shapes and sizes, Annie and that remark is a little provocative.

We don't have a "creed" that we all follow nor think the same

www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=what+are+quakers+all+about&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

I do not ‘goad’ Wyllow and I apologise if you see it that way. Not intended, I assure you, sincerely.

I was stating the fact about the proscribed group.

It’s very simple, they crossed a line when they incapacitated two aircraft causing £7million of damage. At this point this is an attack on our ability to defend our country. Despite what Palestine Action want you to think - this is beyond a game , it’s serious and is a literal act of war against us all. Hence the ban.
And over 500 arrests of those who marched under their banners yesterday.

Don't be so silly.

Imo, and that is just my opinion of course, that kind of statement and others like it is goading.
They add nothing to a discussion.

Others may interpret posts as goading when they are not.

Neither do I want to ‘get you into trouble’ Wyllow. I genuinely like to read your posts. Debate is interesting all we need to remember is to be courteous. I do try to be and I’m genuinely sorry if I’ve riled you this evening. Pax?

Wyllow3

My Quaker friend D is a Samaritan. She cycles as much as she can for the environment. she is gentle, kind, thoughtful, but faced with the suffering in Gaza, felt to call to take action. she was scared but did it.

How dare you casually label her and this like her "Doris blah blah blah"

How little you actually know about the real people taking part because they cannot bear the starving and the bombing any more

FGT, I know we often if not usually have to agree to disagree with great tolerance towards each other but this is going too far.

There are other protest groups, Wyllow3 which Doris could join.

I'm sorry if your friend Doris feels that is the only group she can support. She must know they are proscribed?
Doris is not the only one to feel anguish at what is happening.

I hope she hasn't been arrested.

Point well made Allira. There are indeed ‘other protest groups’. Just don’t go on the streets with Palestine Action. It’s foolish behaviour.

Wyllow3

🙂 Read the history and you will see why
www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=how+did+qualers+help+jews%5D&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

I didn't know that the Quaker movement had been so active in the Kindertransport. My neighbour for nearly 15 years was on the last train to leave Prague organised by Nicholas Winton. It was only when I saw her sitting behind him in the "This is your life" programme that I found out how she had arrived in Britain. Thanks for posting, I keep finding out things I didn't know!

Actually Wyllow I used the name ‘Doris’ before you used ‘D’ to describe your Quaker friend. I could have used ‘Ivy’ or ‘Enid’ but because you used ‘D’ (after me) it did make it seem as though it was a personal attack on your friend!

It really wasn’t. Just an unfortunate conflation.

Quote Wyllow3 Sun 05-Oct-25 20:25:31
I think you probably know already that Quakers come in all shapes and sizes, Annie and that remark is a little provocative.

We don't have a "creed" that we all follow nor think the same

Really.?

Quakers' belief about war is summed up by their Peace Testimony, which states their fundamental opposition to outward wars and violence, stemming from the belief that every life is precious and that there is "that of God in everyone". They reject the idea that war is inevitable and believe in actively working to prevent conflict by addressing its root causes through nonviolent means, seeking to build a just and peaceful world. This leads many Quakers to be conscientious objectors and to engage in active peacebuilding, humanitarian aid, and disarmament efforts.

Just to reiterate I am not flouncing.

I am staying with Jewish friends at the moment.

Please do not underestimate their fears for family and friends.

I have nothing more to add to this thread 🙋‍♀️

I'm afraid I've lost the plot on this thread since it's inception 3 days ago.

However, the old lady mentioned, sitting at the protest, with her placard has little to lose if she is arrested. She certainly isn't going to be applying for a job in the future! She is, however, wasting valuable police time. You do know that, as she is old, police have to handle her very carefully to avoid any injuries. Five or six policemen are needed just to arrest her and carry her off to a detention centre, which means that police resources are thereby thin on the ground in other areas of the country.
So she's rather silly, foolish, in my opinion.

I agree, escaped.

, perhaps enjoying a last chance to throw caution to the wind, no matter if a broken hip caused a police officer to lose his/her job

escaped

I'm afraid I've lost the plot on this thread since it's inception 3 days ago.

However, the old lady mentioned, sitting at the protest, with her placard has little to lose if she is arrested. She certainly isn't going to be applying for a job in the future! She is, however, wasting valuable police time. You do know that, as she is old, police have to handle her very carefully to avoid any injuries. Five or six policemen are needed just to arrest her and carry her off to a detention centre, which means that police resources are thereby thin on the ground in other areas of the country.
So she's rather silly, foolish, in my opinion.

This is just ludicrous 🤣

She is an active 72 year old, ^I mentioned her already cycling* , I mentioned that she works several times a week she is at the end of a phone as a Samaritan, talking down suicidal people, for goodness sake.

It's 8 miles to Meeting and back from where she lives.

Honestly. (goes away muttering).

You're all writing the script to suit you.

I did not use the word elderly

Annie - the peace testimony - I told you we all interpret our testimonies it according to out own conscience, that we dont have "creeds. No one "Tells" you what to do. We dont all agree with what each other chooses, there may be a consensus meeting if the matter is controversial and support could be withheld. (Believe me, they can take hours 🤨)

In WW2 many young Quakers did choose to go and fight with everyone else, others (like in WW1) worked on the ambulances. But no one ever takes it lightly.

A pick and choose faith , comfortable, enjoy

I think you've got yourself mixed up with a different poster whose words I picked up on, Wyllow3 - as elderly and huge implications for her life were definitely used.
So not ludicrous after all; and I'm certainly not writing a script either. It's here in black and white. But mutter away if you want.

Quakers, in my experience, are pretty much like every other human, virtues and faults.

When it comes to belief I haven’t found them any better or worse their actions than any other believer. The difference between the rhetoric and the putting it into practice is about the same.

I’m not quite sure why they are being held up as all that is virtuous and right?

I didn't. I was replying to points raised here, questions asked.

Don't ask the questions or follow links if you aren't interested.

However, the key to Quakers is that we have to work out moral dilemmas for ourselves within the framework of the key issues: Peace, Racism, Climate change, your beliefs.

There is a long recorded history of over 400 years what has been said and done before, including Nobel Peace prizes, but if you have no creed then you have the problems of working out your own, exploring and sometimes agonising about them as there are no simple answers provided by a cleric "believe this or that and all will be OK'.

I mean, the trouble with acting according to your conscience is that you always think that you are right because obviously your conscience never tells you have done wrong, because your actions were those that your conscience said were right in the first place.

It seems quite a dangerous belief system now I think about it. It pretty much justifies any action you want to take.

Seems so Lathyrus I truly believed they were pacifists , as do millions believe ,

es, Quakers are historically and consistently known as conscientious objectors, as their pacifist beliefs lead them to oppose war and military service based on their deeply held religious and moral convictions. Quakers actively promote the right to conscientious objection in law and have historically campaigned against conscription, providing support and solidarity for those who refuse to fight.

you not particularly meant personally more in the sense of one always thinks one is right

No, you don't always think you are right. You are challenged constantly in the discussions we have. You self doubt. You wonder constantly if x or Y is the right path or are you being arrogant or vain or acting from envy or anger.

I suggest you read a bit more and listen to some of the U tube Qukaers speaking out instead of rushing to judgment on the basics of the few words that I've said, since I am after all only one amongst many.

Wyllow3

I didn't. I was replying to points raised here, questions asked.

Don't ask the questions or follow links if you aren't interested.

However, the key to Quakers is that we have to work out moral dilemmas for ourselves within the framework of the key issues: Peace, Racism, Climate change, your beliefs.

There is a long recorded history of over 400 years what has been said and done before, including Nobel Peace prizes, but if you have no creed then you have the problems of working out your own, exploring and sometimes agonising about them as there are no simple answers provided by a cleric "believe this or that and all will be OK'.

Your friend might think she is demonstrating peacefully, Wyllow3 but in fact she is joining in with a proscribed terrorist group, protesting at an extremely sensitive time for the Jewish communities in the country who are living in fear and their children are living in fear too.

She is naïve if she does not realise that her actions cause fear and distress to Jewish British citizens.

Nothing she does will change the course of what is happening in the Middle East.

We can only hope that peace negotiations will be successful but we cannot do anything about that. Better to pray for peace, contemplate quietly, than make other people frightened for their lives.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

I was brought up in one of the cities which was a historic hotspot of Quaker belief. Been to the Meeting house as a teenager. Tried it again when I was having my search for a religion that actually lived by its beliefs🙂

The people weren’t any different from any other person.

But even after one has done all the soul searching, or perhaps because their thinkng is self focused, they will never be able to understand if they have gone wrong because their conscience always tell them they are right. Because they doing what their conscience told them to do so it must be right.

It goes around in circles, that always justifies itself.
I am right because my conscience tells me I am right and I always act according to my conscience that tells me what is right so what I do must be right because my conscience tells me ………..

I hadn’t really thought about the reasoning before. I just knew Quakers weren’t any better than anyone else. Now I see the fallacy in the belief.