Will the Israeli government be investigated for war crimes?

I agree with both David and Maremia.
The same international laws do not apply to a stateless terrorist group.

They were running Gaza for years and years so I’d say that makes them both a terrorist group and a government, they were voted in initially by the Palestinians and have been hoovering up gazillions in aid ever since.
They’re responsible and culpable.

Oreo the US gathered evidence that the IDF were using human shields in the tunnels. Reuters and other sources. Better to check before denying.

Using young girls? Rubbish.

Oreo

Using young girls? Rubbish.

Of course the IDF can do no wrong in your view. Using anyone as a human shield is despicable.

Just did another quick flip to Chat GPT and asked it "Give evidence that the IDF were using human shields in the tunnels in Gaza - including young girls".

It did a brief "politically sensitive subject" as an intro and then went on to say "Short answer up front: credible news outlets, rights groups and whistleblowers have published multiple pieces of evidence showing those troops sent Palestinian civilians - including teenagers, women and children in some cases - into tunnels and buildings ahead of soldiers" and then proceeds to give a noticeable and credible list of where this has been reported that they are doing that.

That evidence includes the IDF official written policy is not to do that - but then gives a load of evidence that they are indeed doing so. Some of that evidence comes from IDF soldiers with a conscience.

The IDF have certainly disregarded civilians in their attacks on Hamas, but I want to see “independant” evidence that the herded civilians as human shields in the way that Hamas did.

David49

The IDF have certainly disregarded civilians in their attacks on Hamas, but I want to see “independant” evidence that the herded civilians as human shields in the way that Hamas did.

Is the US independent enough. They usually defend Israel but they have reported on this. Reuters.

David49

The IDF have certainly disregarded civilians in their attacks on Hamas, but I want to see “independant” evidence that the herded civilians as human shields in the way that Hamas did.

Put the same question into Chat GPT as I did. It gives a choice of sources of this - which look pretty independent to me (as I guess you don't want to believe what I said it said).

AGAA4

David49

The IDF have certainly disregarded civilians in their attacks on Hamas, but I want to see “independant” evidence that the herded civilians as human shields in the way that Hamas did.

Is the US independent enough. They usually defend Israel but they have reported on this. Reuters.

The US is investigating claims yet to be determined, or is this going to be another trial by media episode.

Worth discussing. Better than dismissing out of hand.
We can be right We can be wrong.
Time will tell.

Maremia

Worth discussing. Better than dismissing out of hand.
We can be right We can be wrong.
Time will tell.

So you deny that they are innocent until proven guilty

Or is that your bias against Israel.

One thing is for sure - some people are clearly very very invested indeed in NOT seeing the truth. I think we can give them all the sources going - and, even if the United Nations and the Pope said "This is how it is - and here's the evidence" they will keep their ears and eyes determinedly shut - as they so want to believe Netanyahu (for whatever reason.....).

Personally - I like to see the Truth (even if I don't like it) because I reckon "How can one operate as best possible in the world with half-shut eyes and ears etc?" I need to know "what is" - or I won't make the best possible decisions and somewhere along the line would kick myself for believing anyone/any Government or would-be Government that isn't "telling it as it is".

It's difficult to get my head round someone NOT wanting to see how things are.....but it happens and, when one has presented them with enough evidence that an objective person could see what's what = well...one has to shrug shoulders and move on.

Must be where that phrase comes from of the three monkeys - "Hear no evil, See no evil, etc". If there's evil there I'd rather see it personally than keep my rose-tinted glasses on and refuse to see it. Because then I can see clearly what to think of it and if there's anything I can do to get rid of that evil or, at least, protect myself from it as far as I can.

BTW - There are other AI websites out there. But, for anyone that genuinely wants to look up Chat GPT for instance = it is free and even someone as bad with technology as I am can quickly and easily get an account with it.

CariadAgain

BTW - There are other AI websites out there. But, for anyone that genuinely wants to look up Chat GPT for instance = it is free and even someone as bad with technology as I am can quickly and easily get an account with it.

All AI does is gather the internet traffic and that is definitely against Israel so that dominates. Why is all this “evidence” bring broadcast anyway, it makes it impossible to find an impartial jury in any trial.

If it’s proved that young girls were harmed in tunnels then those responsible should be punished, is there any evidence of physical harm??

Who is innocent David?
Netanyahu?
The IDF?
The Settlers?
You think they are innocent?.

Punished?
Who in the IDF has been punished so far for war crimes?
Wasn't it you who said Israel would not co-operate?
Think you answered your own post.

Nobody has mentioned this atrocity yet

“Hamas officials openly admitted that children were used to help build their terror tunnels and that at least 160Palestinian kids died during so-called work accidents,” charged Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, a leading Jewish human rightsNGO.

“Gaza teens say dangerous work in tunnels is only employment option – UNICEF article
Back-breaking and life-threatening labour in the tunnels
the only option, say teenagers in the State of Palestine
By Catherine Weibel
GAZA, State of Palestine, 9 January 2013 – In the small patch of land that runs along Gaza’s southern border with Egypt, the sound of generators roars amid hundreds of white tents planted in the landscape of sand and bullet-riddled ruins.
Located on the edge of the town of Rafah, the tents hide entrances to tunnels that have been used to smuggle food, fuel and construction materials under the border since the beginning of the closure five years ago. Israel says some of the tunnels are used to smuggle weapons into Gaza.
Inside one of the tents, a dozen teenagers sit around a big hole, waiting for the last of their friends to rise up to the surface. The tunnel, with its walls of bare soil with wooden supports, is tall enough for a man to stand with his head bowed.
Accidents are rife. Since 2009, eight children have been killed and another three injured in collapses, electrocutions, explosions of gas cylinders and air strikes.
Children working in tunnels are a not a rare sight, but no one knows how many there are. Many tunnel owners find it easier to hire children, who are less likely to complain about working conditions or the pay. Parents claim they have no choice but to send their children to work in the tunnels to help feed the family.
Tunnels or tombs?
Sixteen-year-old Mohammed* was sent to work in tunnels when he turned 14. “One morning, my mother took me in her arms and hugged me, crying. She said that I was a man and that, from now on, I would no longer go to school but had to work because my father was too old to find a job,” he says. “I was forced to drop out of school and ended up in a tunnel.”
Mohammed can barely keep his eyes open as he talks, his frail body numb with exhaustion. “The first time I arrived at the tunnel, I freaked out and I cried,” he recalls. “I did not want to work underground; the tunnel looked like a tomb. One of the workers gave me a small pill to relax.”
The pill was Tramadol, a mild opioid painkiller of poor quality imported through the tunnels from Egypt. It has become a popular drug in Gaza and can be very addictive. Many children working in tunnels say they take it regularly. “Sometimes my body is aching too much, but I still have to go to work, so I take a pill,” says another teenager.
“What choice do I have?”
Mohammed earns up to 120 shekels (about US$30) per back-breaking shift in the tunnel. He says he could find a job on a construction site, but the heat is excruciating and the salary is only a third of what he currently makes. “I wish I could become an electrician, but I don’t really know how to get there,” he reflects.
Mohammed’s friend, 16-year-old Ahmad, keeps going to school every day after his night shift. “My teacher says I should stop working in the tunnel, but what choice do I have? I cannot leave my family without bread on the table,” he laments, adding that he keeps falling asleep in class. “I fear that, in the end, I will never graduate from school.”
Risking their lives
Mohammed and Ahmad recall how they almost died together in a tunnel collapse. “We knew that help was on the way and there was some air left, but one of the gas cylinders we were transporting started to leak, and we suffocated,” remembers Mohammed. “We panicked and we thought we were going to die.” The children were rescued in time, but Mohammed was hospitalized for a week.
Mohammed says that his cousin, who worked in another tunnel, was not so lucky. “The gas cylinders he was transporting exploded when he lit up a cigarette, and he died,” the child says, softly. “I hate gas cylinders. I don’t want to carry another one in my life, but I have to work.”
Saqer is an educator in a UNICEF-supported Adolescent-Friendly Space in Rafah. He says that he sometimes comes across children working in tunnels and tries to talk them into quitting their jobs.
“I have convinced a teenager to go and work in a bottle factory instead, and I am now trying to find him vocational training, as he does not want to go back to school,” the educator says. The teenager is still working in the tunnels from time to time because it is more profitable.
Since the closure was slightly eased in 2010, the number of tunnels has decreased, and work has started drying up. “I don’t go underground as often as I used to,” says a 15-year-old tunnel worker.
He does not seem to know whether it’s a good or a bad thing.
* All names have been changed.”

Not so much Hamas but owners of tunnels used for smuggling goods into Gaza for many years. And dirt poor families forced to send their children to work.
Hamas may have done this as well but the tunnels were not dug for terror but trade originally.
Let us not forget that Gaza was a third world country suffering a blockade. And like most third world countries children had to work or families went hungry.

That's shocking Babs - but one can get the gist of it's like 19th century Britain (probably even worse) - where children were financially speaking forced into awful work - because in many families it was a case of "Too many people to feed and few options for feeding them".

They didnt have any sort of welfare state as far as I can work out before all this trouble started and they seem to have a lot more children than we do from what I can make out - so lots of extra mouths to feed.

AGAA4

Oreo

Using young girls? Rubbish.

Of course the IDF can do no wrong in your view. Using anyone as a human shield is despicable.

The IDF like any Army in the world can do wrong of course, and often on the ground do what’s expedient rather than morally or ethically right at times.
I can believe that they may have made Palestinian men go in front of them in tunnels or into houses where they suspect hamas members or boobytraps but refuse to believe that they have done that with girls or women.

David49

Nobody has mentioned this atrocity yet

“Hamas officials openly admitted that children were used to help build their terror tunnels and that at least 160Palestinian kids died during so-called work accidents,” charged Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, a leading Jewish human rightsNGO.

Not many on here will like reading that.

‘Not so much hamas but owners of tunnels’ Babs03 are you serious?!
Nobody so much as coughed in Gaza without hamas knowing about it, and the majority of tunnels were /are for the benefit of hamas.

Not so much Hamas but owners of tunnels

That is heartbreaking, Babs03.
However, the vast majority of the tunnels in Gaza were owned and operated by the militant part of Hamas and other militant groups.

I have also heard women from Gaza lamenting how good life was there before the war.

So many different stories.

Now that should be an interesting one if anyone ever runs a poll on it as to what percentage of people on here have never ever ever done a job that was disagreeable to them/exploitative/dangerous/immoral generally.

My feeling is that it wouldnt be very many at all.

I started out my worklife determined to never facilitate wars in the smallest of ways (which, in my case, meant typing anything to do with fighting wars/civil defence/etc) and there was a couple of occasions when I had to make my refusal plain - as it was being asked of me. I hadnt seriously thought an office worker like me would ever come across any occasion I'd be asked to - but yep.....civil defence typing requests (duly refused), typing someone's personal war memoirs as an extra (duly refused).

Not mentioning the time when I thought "A secretarial job in the University would be the best environment for me" and wrote asking for a couple and walked into the geology department (if my memory serves me right) and didn't think there'd be a problem for a second. Then up came a question of "We have to search out places for dumping nuclear waste. Would that be a problem to you?" At that point the silence was so very long - as I was there gobsmacked by such a question straight out of left field that it was obvious that an answer would be along the lines of "How fast could I tell Greenpeace about it?"

It's surprising just how very hard it is - even in a country like Britain and even back in the 1970s/1980s to avoid jobs one disapproves of....so goodness only knows how hard it is in a less civilised and/or largely destroyed country and when one has few options and is even being expected to work whilst one should still be at school.

Even in this country - my father made it plain to me he hadnt gone into the armed forces by choice and that it was his wife's decision that he stayed in them for as long as he did and it took a determined teenage daughter (me) to get him out of them.

I'd love to know if there are many people at all - even in Britain - that have never ever had a job they disapproved of per se at all and never had a job where they disapproved of the wages/conditions at all (ie for being too bad to be fair). 10% maybe?