Trump and Putin negotiating War in Ukraine without Zelensky?

But what possible justification could Russia give for any future attacks if it has been given its wish list? Also if and big if Russia did try to take more land than agreed, a huge counter attack from the west would be justified.

Remember 1938 ronib
Despots aren’t reliable (as we see with bot Putin and his friend The Donald )

Since when did Russia need a 'justification' for an attack?
Not having a justification will not prevent future attacks.

Prevention is better than cure.
Prevent future attacks on Ukraine, by keeping Ukraine strong.

Putin's aim is to remake the USSR. Even if he is given more land he will want more. Putin has no scruples about sticking to a plan that favours Russia. Weakening Ukraine more plays into his hands.

Since when did Russia need a 'justification' for an attack? exactly Maremia.

Trump is now asking Zelensky to grovel over the peace plan!

I know what my reaction would be.

Mine too WW just because Trump's prepared to grovel to Putin, doesn't mean anyone else will .

Trump seems to enjoy demeaning Zelensky. I wish he would tell him to 🤬

That is what bullies do. He is an out and out b……………d.

Maybe he'll only take so much and do just that AGAA.

Smileless2012

Maybe he'll only take so much and do just that AGAA.

The Ukrainians are a proud people. Zelensky is so much a better man than Trump. How much of this can they take?

Trump changes his mind, what's left of it, probably more times than he changes his socks. It's still Sunday, and half a week could be a long enough time. (excuse the paraphrase)

It appears all the relevant parties including Ukraine are holding high level talks in Geneva today. I don't see that anyone has been left out. One doesn't expect heads of state to attend second tier talks however important.

I’ve just been to watch Nuremberg at the cinema. IMO a good film. One of the great messages was that what happened in Germany could happen anywhere.
That’s a particularly relevant message given Trump, Putin and the rise of the right in Europe.
Wouldn’t you follow such a man, who said he could make your country great again - Herman Goring of Hitler (for clarity, I’m paraphrasing

I'm intending to see it and yes, so much of Trump's actions are straight out of the Hitler playbook. As indeed is some of the rhetoric from Reform, AFD and the likes of Tommy Robinson. Scary stuff as it "speaks" to many people just like it did in Hitler's Germany.

It’s the desire for simple solutions to complex problems. Link it with an easily identified group to other and scapegoat and away you go.

Currently it’s immigrants but the rhetoric of some pro Palestinian groups is anti semitic. Stressing here, though I shouldn’t need to, that disagreeing with the current Israeli govrrnment is not anti semitic

TRIP has gone through the peace plan line by line.

It is straight out of Putin's playbook, and has dire implication for Europe.

If we allow this to happen we will get everything we deserve!

I've just listened to Trip, it explains very clearly why Ukraine can't accept the deal and why it is completely unacceptable to any right minded person.

Yes but its not up to TRIP (whoever they may be): it's for the parties involved.

Apologies, * Grantanow* I assumed incorrectly that most would know I was referring to a popular podcast, The Rest is Politics. Basically, Alastair Cambell and Rory Stewart, the two presenters are absolutely agreeing with you but went through the deal line by line explaining why it was such a dreadful deal for Ukraine.

As long as the US realises that countries in Europe are not about to allow the Russia wish list to go ahead dressed up as a peace plan.There will have to be compromise by Ukraine but not giving up the Donbas region or other regions not yet taken over by Russia.

Exactly Oreo which is Europe needs to step up so Trump is in no doubt that Putin's wish list is unacceptable.

But Russia is not going to back down imo. This unnecessary war could go on for years? At what cost to human life?

I doubt the Ukrainians would agree that it's an unnecessary war ronib and Putin doesn't give a damn about the cost to human life and neither does his pal Trump.