Mr Trump Accuses Ukrainians of Not Being Grateful Enough.

Russia (ussr) deemed Crimea as part if Ukraine in 1954.

So it was “given” voluntarily by USSR to Ukraine.

I've noticed that Trump calls this “Ukraine’s war with Russia.” It’s not, of course, it's Russia’s war with Ukraine.

I think you can visit most places in Russia and find the same, Aveline.

This is a little snippet of Phillips O'brien talking about the "deal" today on LBC. He's a professor of Strategic Studies at St Andrews- with an interest in war.

x.com/LBC/status/1992934817994879390?t=e_R22_r4XSEeAUpv1a05Yg&s=19

And here is a piece to read by him:
phillipspobrien.substack.com/p/the-long-con-comes-to-an-end

keeping quiet I'm not surprised.

Aveline

Yalta was a poor run down place last time we saw it. The dead hand of communism seemed to have stifled any pretentions to street cleaning or building maintenance. Miserable people too. No smiles.

That’s what you get with Communism isn’t it? No incentive for people to do their jobs well.

Actually, I don`t think Russias war with Ukraine, I think and wish the media would remind EVERYONE it was and is Russias INVASION of Ukraine...

I have read that Putin has something compromising on Trump from Trump's visits to Moscow before he became president. I don't know either way but it does look as if Trump is predisposed to follow Putin's wishes a lot more often than not.
Maybe others will know more about this than I do.

He is so narcissistic and horrendous! Who does he think he is for making such horrendous demands from Zelensky. We all know Trump doesn’t like him, because he doesn’t comply to everything he says.
It’s all about the minerals underground for electric cars.
Nothing ever to do with the good of the people of Ukraine.
Only what he gets out of any deal.
Stand your ground Mr Zelensky! You know what is right for your people and country

It will take some time but as we now know that America is no longer the friend and ally of Europe we will be pivoting away from the USA.

The Tangerine Toddler, a wanna be King, Dictator and to be worshipped. He gives me the shivers

I cannot recommend highly enough the BBC Radio 4 Reith Lectures which started today and are highly relevant to this thread. Really interesting and well argued and puts the present in the context of history. Today's lecture was recognisable and paints a very worrying picture - as an example, Americans who have studied fascism are leaving the US. The speaker promises that the next lecture is more optimistic and offers a better way ahead.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00729d9

Witzend

IMO Trump admires Putin - he’s the sort of dictator he himself would love to be.
(I do sometimes wonder whether he’s a reincarnation of Henry VIII….)

You could well be right. There are lots of similarities....

ronib

Does anyone remember reading reports of sustained killings by Ukrainians of Russians living legally in the now disputed territories before the war started?

What if Putin was trying to regulate and reclaim territories previously Russian to stop the slaughter? We have such unreliable information streamed to us daily that we fall all too easily to whatever the news media wants us to believe. We have erased memories of why Putin started this war and there were reasons given at the time.

But isn’t it accepted that this was a result of Russian Grey Men sent into the region to create a narrative on the orders of Putin?Also consider the published Epstein files where ,in June 2018, he states that he passed on information on Trump to the Russians via Vitaly Churkin….

Two big ego’s by two narcisstic creepy men. Russia invaded Ukraine and demand gratitude for it.

I think it is so sad that someone as powerful as Trump can be so blinkered and egotistical. To think that USA used to be a great ally and friend and could be relied upon in times of great need. I appreciate there is a monetary cost and Europe and UK have let things slip but to allow Russia to do what it wants is completely foolhardy. I feel so bad for the Ukranians and Putin really must not get all that he wants. He is another bully just like DT and there is more to their 'relationship' than we all know.

I can't think Putin cares what the west thinks or says

I agree Shell but what's even more worrying is Trump doesn't seem to care either.

Applegran

I have read that Putin has something compromising on Trump from Trump's visits to Moscow before he became president. I don't know either way but it does look as if Trump is predisposed to follow Putin's wishes a lot more often than not.
Maybe others will know more about this than I do.

There isn’t any evidence but it’s the only thing that explains why Trump is so very pro Russia.

I’ve just seen Trump’s speech during the Thanksgiving ceremony to pardon the 2 turkeys today. He said if he had his way he’d have named the turkeys Chuck and Nancy and he wouldn’t have pardoned them, not even if Melania said it would be a nice thing to do.

He then rambled off script and spoke about the crime rate in Chicago. He described the mayor as a loser and the governor as a big fat slob!

Trump is an utterly vile excuse for a man. He doesn’t even attempt to hide it.

a loser and ...... a big fat slob takes one to know one.

Trump has no idea what ‘gratitude’ is. He never says thank you to others (unless it gains him something) and would NEVER admit he’s wrong… I do wonder what ‘hold’ Putin has on him? Or have they just made an agreement to carve up Ukraine to their mutual benefit?
He is ignorant, and uneducated (apparently his father paid someone to take his exams) but surely even he knows who really started this war?? So why does he keep siding with Putin?

Grannynannywanny

I’ve just seen Trump’s speech during the Thanksgiving ceremony to pardon the 2 turkeys today. He said if he had his way he’d have named the turkeys Chuck and Nancy and he wouldn’t have pardoned them, not even if Melania said it would be a nice thing to do.

He then rambled off script and spoke about the crime rate in Chicago. He described the mayor as a loser and the governor as a big fat slob!

Trump is an utterly vile excuse for a man. He doesn’t even attempt to hide it.

He is both! And obviously Smileless2012 is a MAGA IDIOT!

Wyllow3

It is arguable that Russia has rights to the Crimea historically , but not to the Dombass.

But Ronib, we have to look at the "now", not allegations of what individuals might have done to each there in the past. I'm sure there was nastiness on both sides going back, but actual giving up Ukrainian territory is another matter altogether.

and it not just any old territory, either. Its control over the ports where the Ukrainians load up cereals for export, and the land itself one of the "breadbaskets" of the Ukraine.

No it’s not arguable… The USSR (now Russia) GAVE THE CRIMEA to Ukraine in 1954!
Putin is trying to get back all the territory ( and more) that they willingly parted with a few decades back! He - like Trump - is trying to alter history and ‘MAKE, in his eyes, RUSSIA GREAT AGAIN’!p

Trump is either a great admirer of Putin or else he is afraid of him or just a coward and a fool. Putin is playing a game with him and he's winning. Why has Trump suddenly turned on Zelensky yet again? Or is it all a game and Trump actually has a plan, I doubt this!!