Mr Trump Accuses Ukrainians of Not Being Grateful Enough.

I feel so sorry for Zelensky, caught between two egomaniacs with no regard for Ukraine and its people relying on these buffoons to restore peace in their lives.

Exactly Kalu

Does anyone remember reading reports of sustained killings by Ukrainians of Russians living legally in the now disputed territories before the war started?

What if Putin was trying to regulate and reclaim territories previously Russian to stop the slaughter? We have such unreliable information streamed to us daily that we fall all too easily to whatever the news media wants us to believe. We have erased memories of why Putin started this war and there were reasons given at the time.

It is arguable that Russia has rights to the Crimea historically , but not to the Dombass.

But Ronib, we have to look at the "now", not allegations of what individuals might have done to each there in the past. I'm sure there was nastiness on both sides going back, but actual giving up Ukrainian territory is another matter altogether.

and it not just any old territory, either. Its control over the ports where the Ukrainians load up cereals for export, and the land itself one of the "breadbaskets" of the Ukraine.

Yes Wyllow3 but Russia needs access to the port in Crimea too? That’s the real problem.

Yes, access to the seaports is absolutely vital for Russia as they have so little access to open sea channels.

This is really what this war is about. The Russian economy is struggling because of the costs of war and the sanctions which took ages to impact but are now doing so.

The fact that Trump can be making these concessions to Russia over the needs of Ukraine truly sickens me.

Yes Ronib, they do... but that doesn't need giving away that whole chunk of land.

I just looked it up to help the thread - enough ports for both! I've posted the ref to the whole page, it's really helpful. Long story short - enough to go round without the Dombass becoming under Russian control

www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=ports+in+dombass+and+crimea&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Oh, and I got the spelling wrong, sorry all, its Donbas

The question is there, in the shadows, does Putin have Kompromat over Trump?

I think Putin has lots of dirt on Trump which would explain why Trump toadies up to him and is giving him everything he wants.
There has never been an American president who has sided with the Russians to the detriment of his allies as Trump is doing, he's a disgrace to his office.
If Putin wanted to claim Alaska and sent troops in to take it as he has done in Ukraine, would Trump allow him to do it? of course he wouldn't but it seems fine for Zelensky to surrender a huge swathe of his homeland to suit Putin. It's plain to see that it's all about 'the deal' Trump loves to make. They'll split the mineral rights up between them and asset-strip what they can, hog-tie Ukraine, having denied them Nato's protection and reduced their army, then Putin will take over the rest of the country.
So what next? Poland and the Baltic states? If Ukraine capitulates, there will be no end to Putin's greed.
What a world

Witzend

IMO Trump admires Putin - he’s the sort of dictator he himself would love to be.
(I do sometimes wonder whether he’s a reincarnation of Henry VIII….)

I agree, reminds me of when he became pals with Kim Jong Un a few years ago.

Trump seems to forget that Russia has a border with various European countries who will be very worried about their own futures if Putin is seen to be rewarded for invading Ukraine.

Trump doesn't care about Europe. Nor does Vance.

But does Europe care about America? Does caring help anyone very much?

If it does then IMO it's time Europe stopped caring about America ronib.

What I am trying to work out is the fact that not caring but naked self interest is more efficient in the long run? Perhaps am rambling….

I’ve just posted on the other thread.

This morning I’ve been listening to TRIP who is going through the “peace plan” line by line.

If Europe accept this then we are in for a very dangerous future indeed.

Ukraine is correct when it says that this is tantamount to another 1938 Chamberlain appeasement.

I would give Russia less than 1 year before it goes into the Balkans.

None of what we are witnessing from Russia - incursions into other sovereign territory - is being carried out for no reason. Russian is gathering information, testing resolve and planning.

All it needs to do is build its military up to a sufficient state that can challenge NATO - and note the USA distancing itself from this institution in the peace plan.

Maremia

The question is there, in the shadows, does Putin have Kompromat over Trump?

Yes.
I'm sure he does!

And Trump’s natural way is to go along with whoever he thinks is the strongest - and to trample everyone else.

Thanks Wyllow3

And I also listened to TRIP (last night) whitewavemark .
It was good to hear it looked at point by point.
Thought I'd post a link to it:

The Rest Is Politics on Global Player - share-lbc.globalplayer.com/podcasts/episodes/7DrvShh/

👍🏽

It is arguable that Russia has rights to the Crimea historically...

It certainly is arguable, wyllow but how far back do we have to go? It was part of the Ottoman empire for far longer than Russia had it. Should Turkey lay claim to it?

There's a historical analysis by the i here

inf.news/en/history/6130906076b2ddac50e5db21f3a82fa0.html

What I meant ronib is that if Russia keeps pushing west, then Europe is on it's own to deal with it. Trump's USA will not help.

I guess I'm being practical MaizieD. You can go back in history and find all kinds of things.
Both Russia and Ukraine need sea access: there are a majority of Russians in Crimea (although not by overwhelming numbers, there are also Crimean Tatars - they have their own language, but for everyday use use Russian, not Ukrainian)

You can be absolutely sure Russia will never let go of the Crimea, but: thus far, no further?

Yalta was a poor run down place last time we saw it. The dead hand of communism seemed to have stifled any pretentions to street cleaning or building maintenance. Miserable people too. No smiles.