Is it wrong to identify as something you aren’t?

Yes, I remember Elegran.
It was a despicable thing to do.

Protecting your identity online is quite different from pretending to be someone of importance, eg a high-ranking Naval Officer with more medals than is normal and attending formal occasions organised by true veterans.

Mollygo

Thats OK M0nica and Maremia.
A lot of people agree with the right to deceive if it suits their purpose.
It’s wrong if it is being used for fraudulent purposes:
fraudulent
unjustifiably claiming or being credited with particular accomplishments or qualities

It’s doubly wrong if it hurts someone or has the potential to hurt someone.
But he probably thought dressing up as and acting in the way he thought his fantasy would do wouldn’t hurt any one.
There’s an increasing number of men think like that.

He wasn't using it defraud anyone. He wasn't putting anyone in danger.

I don't get the disrespect, he wouldn't be imitating an admiral if he didn't think being a highly decorated admiral was a good thing to be. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I'm sure that used to be a saying.

Aren't the courts overwhelmed, people on serious charges being listed for hearings in 2028 but this can come to court In two months? Sense of proportion anyone.

Just to add I'm from a navy family. My father and uncle decorated for service In WW2..

Oreo

I suppose it was a bit of fantasy that went too far.He had quite a prestigious past didn’t he and maybe in retirement he needed to continue to be admired? Am certain he really regrets it, not a big fine really but it’s the shame of it that will haunt him.

What was his prestigious past? I haven't been able to find anything about him online apart from this criminal conviction.

Jonathan Carley said in his police interview he did it because had wanted a sense of "belonging and affirmation".

LemonJam

Jonathan Carley said in his police interview he did it because had wanted a sense of "belonging and affirmation".

That's quite sad

Mental health issues, perhaps?
Wasn't he a teacher, in the past?

Rocketstop2

BlueBelle

What about identifying as a cat ?

That is an insult to cats, and in fact I've heard they are instructing solicitors to act against anyone who attempts to impersonate them !

I can't have cats because I'm allergic although I've always admired their beauty and grace.
I have to say however that I love these cat posts!!!!
What is it that you cat owners say? " Dogs have owners : Cats have staff "
As a devoted dog lover I say ...."Vive la difference......"

MollyNew

Oreo

I suppose it was a bit of fantasy that went too far.He had quite a prestigious past didn’t he and maybe in retirement he needed to continue to be admired? Am certain he really regrets it, not a big fine really but it’s the shame of it that will haunt him.

What was his prestigious past? I haven't been able to find anything about him online apart from this criminal conviction.

He was a teacher.

I read he was a sports coach- seemingly motivating his teams well and well regarded. Quite sad in a way...

LemonJam

Jonathan Carley said in his police interview he did it because had wanted a sense of "belonging and affirmation".

Well, if he wanted to really feel as if he belonged, perhaps he'd be happy to be court-martialled for wearing medals to which he was not entitled.

He pleaded guilty in court and expressed apologies and remorse in court. He's been publicly exposed and humiliated- which will continue to follow him.

I believe it's legal to call yourself something like Princess Doodle of Dog, so long as you don't use the title to defraud anyone. I'm sure that if I adopted that name and decided to dress in long silk gowns and tiaras I couldn't be arrested for it, even if I got funny looks in Sainsburys. Isn't the classic stereotypical mad person someone who thinks he is Napoleon?

How did this chap get invitations to places where he could genuinely impersonate an Admiral? Aren't they taken from lists of serving (or retired) officers? I could understand a prosecution if he'd tried to captain a ship or something, and I can also understand people being infuriated by his claiming a rank he doesn't hold, but what harm did he actually do?

theworriedwell

Magenta8

I think people who pretend to be Rear Admirals are fairly harmless in comparison with people who pretend to be medical doctors* or qualified nurses.

I believe some people pretend to have PhDs or DPhils but that again seems relatively harmless.

Of course, it is morally wrong to pretend to have qualifications you don't have or to be something you are not.

*eg Gillian McKeith

I'm not bothered if someone says they are a medical doctor unless they start treating/examining people. I'm not sure what harm he would cause saying he's a rear admiral, I don't suppose he was commanding a fleet of ships.

Unfortunately, the case of a person pretending to be a medical doctor that I came across was in a situation where they were treating someone.

It was at a school dance where one of the dads pretended to be a physician so he could "treat" a young girl who was so drunk that she became unconscious. I was alarmed when he was clearly more interested in undoing her clothes than checking her breathing and putting her into recovery position. Needless to say I intervened.

I recall a fake interpreter for the deaf at a Mandela event some years ago, I believe a man just flapped his hands around in the background and of course the deaf community were in high dudgeon over that.

What first alerted me about this "doctor" was when he said "There's no need for you to stay." Most real doctors would be unlikely to want to be left alone with a young girl without a chaperone. I made it very clear that I was staying and it seemed to annoy him.

Doodledog

I believe it's legal to call yourself something like Princess Doodle of Dog, so long as you don't use the title to defraud anyone. I'm sure that if I adopted that name and decided to dress in long silk gowns and tiaras I couldn't be arrested for it, even if I got funny looks in Sainsburys. Isn't the classic stereotypical mad person someone who thinks he is Napoleon?

How did this chap get invitations to places where he could genuinely impersonate an Admiral? Aren't they taken from lists of serving (or retired) officers? I could understand a prosecution if he'd tried to captain a ship or something, and I can also understand people being infuriated by his claiming a rank he doesn't hold, but what harm did he actually do?

I don't think he was invited, he just turned up at services etc and people became more and more suspicious. Those who are part of the proceedings ie reading the List of the Fallen, the Exhortation etc, are part of the official party.

Yes, you could call yourself whatever you liked but that wouldn't be dishonouring the fallen and other veterans who earned their medals.

He didn't impersonate an Able Seaman, did he. Oh no, only a Rear Admiral would do!

He must have an inferiority complex and want to make himself seem braver and more important than he actually is.
Sad.

It does seem sad, rather than nefarious, though. I think that impersonating a police officer and (mis)directing traffic, or interfering with the course of justice is much worse, as, of course, is pretending to be a doctor so you can touch people inappropriately - but turning up at services really amounts to taking up a seat and roleplaying a fantasy. I'm not saying he was right to do it, but it seems more sad than bad, if you see what I mean.

Why do people bend over backwards to make excuses for people who set out to deceive? It was deliberate and intentional.

If that's meant for me, I'm not bending over backwards any more than you are. I am trying to understand someone's motives without making judgemental assumptions.

I assume that there will be psychology reports which will do the same, so that if there is any doubt about his motives the benefit of them will be given.

LemonJam

Jonathan Carley said in his police interview he did it because had wanted a sense of "belonging and affirmation".

There are others who use a similar excuse.

Yes it is. I remember neighbours who had endured hell in the wars. What the hell was he doing? Obviously has a mental health problem, well I think so. I think he got off lightly. If he wants to dress up in uniform then put on Community Service overalls and pay back to society.
So glad I don't know him

He was legitimately issued with the uniform when in the cadets- but wrongly purchased and wore medals he shouldn't have to appear high ranking. He laid a wreath at a remembrance event on 4 occasions. He pleaded guilty in court. He said in his police interview he did it to feel a sense of belonging and affirmation.

Nobody has suggested, including himself, that what he did was in any way acceptable. It was an affront and disrespectful to those who served their countries and lost their lives. It's not excusing his behaviour by seeking to understand why he behaved as he did however.

Courts and judges follow sentencing guidelines. This wasn't a crime sufficiently serious within those sentencing guidelines to merit the need for psychology reports. He was fined and awarded costs against him etc as set out in those sentencing guidelines. He will live with his public humiliation for the rest of his life.

His crime was different than those who impersonate and deceptively ACT as an impersonating professional, such as carrying out activities as a qualified doctor, nurse, paramedic, pilots, train driver etc as they are putting peoples safety at risk. Or a solicitor or accountant for financial fraud or benefit.

This man laid a wreath and saluted on 4 occasions- nothing more sinister than that. Wrong and hugely disrespectful but I agree with Doodledog he did not do it for "nefarious" reasons ie wickedly.

LemonJam

Jonathan Carley said in his police interview he did it because had wanted a sense of "belonging and affirmation".

Yes, it's as simple as that. I think the punishment and shame of being so publicly "outed" is as great as the fine and is adequate enough.

Men seem to often find it more difficult to accept an everyday life is "enough" post retirement.

some, as we have seen in the AIBU or chat threads is sometimes needing to be "the boss" " in control" at home to the cost of gransnetters.

What he needs is help in finding a voluntary role that will give him the sense of affirmation and value.

But it was a bizarre choice of role to take and certainly offensive to many.

I thought the unusual factor in this case is that people who had known Jonathon Carly, when he was a history master at two prestigious private schools and as a rowing coach to an Oxford College all spoke highly and warmly of his abilities and his personality as being warm and pleasant. People who knew him clearly held him in high regard.

Usually people like this are loners who do not make good relations with people and are 'at outs' with the world. I did notice that in among all these encomiums, no one mentioned a partner or spouse, or family. the human persona is a very complex beast.

LemonJam

He was legitimately issued with the uniform when in the cadets- but wrongly purchased and wore medals he shouldn't have to appear high ranking. He laid a wreath at a remembrance event on 4 occasions. He pleaded guilty in court. He said in his police interview he did it to feel a sense of belonging and affirmation.

Nobody has suggested, including himself, that what he did was in any way acceptable. It was an affront and disrespectful to those who served their countries and lost their lives. It's not excusing his behaviour by seeking to understand why he behaved as he did however.

Courts and judges follow sentencing guidelines. This wasn't a crime sufficiently serious within those sentencing guidelines to merit the need for psychology reports. He was fined and awarded costs against him etc as set out in those sentencing guidelines. He will live with his public humiliation for the rest of his life.

His crime was different than those who impersonate and deceptively ACT as an impersonating professional, such as carrying out activities as a qualified doctor, nurse, paramedic, pilots, train driver etc as they are putting peoples safety at risk. Or a solicitor or accountant for financial fraud or benefit.

This man laid a wreath and saluted on 4 occasions- nothing more sinister than that. Wrong and hugely disrespectful but I agree with Doodledog he did not do it for "nefarious" reasons ie wickedly.

He was legitimately issued with the uniform when in the cadets

Really? Another of his fantasies?
No cadet leader would have the rank of Rear Admiral. Did he sew on the rings ad stars himself?

Anyone can lay a wreath, members of the public lay them in memory of loved ones; as a member of the Cadets (Second Lieutenant apparently) he could salute but his Commission was terminated.