Woman shot and killed by ICE officers in Minneapolis, Minnesota

Grandmabatty 13.57- I feel your frustration- hope you dont leave us....
Maremia 14.00- 👍

Maremia 13.50: "Syracute, so very sorry that your fellow citizens are being treated in such a cruel, unjustified and illegal way".

I echo that Syracute.

Oreo

Cossy

Syracute

Clearly media hysteria!

Honestly, I’m not sure why we bother responding to the very few posters on here who will never admit how very right wing they are nor admit they might just be wrong.

I’m wrong about lots of things, I’m quite happy to be shown evidence I’m wrong or to research or speak ro someone far more knowledgable than myself.

Any one know which state starfire lives? I’m know things are very different in different parts of the USA, with many differing opinions.

Critical thinking is the key, as is active listening.

It’s clear here we all have our own beliefs, views and moral compasses.

That’s fine, we all have differing live experiences which shape us.

Please don’t bother responding on my account, but don’t use the ‘we’ word because that looks very much like ganging up doesn’t it?
Also don’t use the words right wing to me because I’m certainly not.Nor am I far left, just a Labour voter who along with millions of others are aghast at what Starmer and his happy campers are doing policy wise.
I also won’t admit I’m wrong because I’m not wrong.I haven’t read a single post on here that say anyone deserves to be shot, rather that the two women acted foolishly in my opinion in obstructing armed officials by their words and actions.
Many others are protesting in a very different way and there’s no way they would be harmed in doing that.
Other opinions think differently and I wouldn’t diss or in any way be rude to posters with differing views, it’s just an online forum courtesy.

Please stop hiding behind your endless ‘I’m a Labour voter’ comments. As a lifelong Labour voter I do not recognise your political beliefs as being the same as mine. And I shall report my post to HQ myself: if they want to ban me for making personal comments sobeit. How on earth you can continue to support an obvious MAGA/Trump supporter is beyond me.

Syracute- thank you for your links 7.59, 8.02, 8.08 and 8.14 regarding the limited rights of illegal aliens in US. I had not seen all the but was aware of the prosectors disgusted by Trumps heavy handed tactics and disagreeing with some of Starfire's assertions and posted about this earlier.

Grandmabatty

I feel this thread has been hijacked by one poster in particular who doesn't want a discussion but a reiteration of their views only. And so, I'm out.

The real problem is that some posters treat their opinion as fact, which of course it isn’t.

Opinions do not need a reply, so these post can be skipped, as they take the thread no further forward.

It is much more interesting to read evidence based posts and perhaps the replies with evidence based counter argument.

Oreo

How about posters not dismissing Starfire57 then? It works both ways you know.
And do you know what the population of the US is? So anecdotes about some relatives of posters don’t mean much.

I don't think Starfire57 has been dismissed. People have taken time and care in answering her. Many of us will have multiple sources for information on what is happening, including other people living there.

When people have very fixed ideas of the truth it's sensible to expected those ideas will be challenged. There isn't, and never will be, one truth, particularly in politics and economics. Starfire's truth seems to come from asking "Who representsus, and who is destroyingus?” that is one way of looking at how we are governed but it would be naive to think that this is the starting point that everyone sees.

Grandmabatty

I feel this thread has been hijacked by one poster in particular who doesn't want a discussion but a reiteration of their views only. And so, I'm out.

Pot kettle black.
It’s high time that posters realised that others have different views and opinions on here without becoming personal.

I find that Starfire ( whether intentional or not ) tries to dominate the conversation with very long comments with a lot of spacing in between that creates a very dominant effect.

Thank you for the links, Syracute. It's important to get a rounded picture.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Lemon Jam thank you for your astute summing up .

Iam64

* people are nuts in the US *

Well, what an interesting take on your own country Starfire57. I expect ‘some posters’ might agree that it’s just a tad crazy to elect the Donald

I think "people are nuts in the US" is not a surprising as a description. Those who believe in:
• Charismatic authority: “This person sees what others don’t.”
• Narrative economics: Stories of decline, betrayal, revival, greatness.
• Immunity to falsification: Failed predictions don’t discredit the leader; they’re reinterpreted (“sabotage,” “corruption,” “the enemy”).
• Simplified causality: Complex systems are reduced to a few villains or saviors, will think the "other side is nuts".

But the other side who place their trust in:
• Empirical regularities
• Institutions (central banks, statistical agencies)
• Incremental adjustment
• Peer review and expert consensus
Will think think they are.

And those who have a third view and would tell you "Error is inevitable; refusal to correct is the real failure" would probably feel the wroth of both the others.

Thank you LemonJam. I will have to read your post again. There is much in it with which I agree.

meanwhile

In the pursuit of justice, three charges are to be filed for Noem's impeachment.
No information so far about the due process for those arrested by ICE .
Perhaps that's because there is no due process to report?

I will def have to read yours DaisyAR, a few times.

Er one page ago those of us offering a different point of view were told to get our morality clock reset, no one seemed to worry about courtesy then.
I mean it just made me laugh but the idea that some posters are the arbiter of morality is an interesting one.
I didn't post on the Trump threads much ( mainly because there is so much trolling) but also because even swerving an inch from the narrative is seen as despicable. I have vaguely admired David's attempts to have some form of conversation as it certainly isn't easy.

Sorry to have to inform you Galaxy, but Trump himself is the arbiter of morality. He told this to the world, just a couple of days ago.

I don't often have chats with Trump though, if I did I would tell him to get a move on with regard to Iran. Possibly it is to the world's benefit that I am not involved in foreign policy.

Yes, that statement may well come back to haunt you Galaxy. Trump has not learned that time spent in reconnaissance is seldom wasted.

westendgirl

Lemon Jam thank you for your astute summing up .

Summing up 😂 hmmm, are we in court here?
Quite ridiculous to type out such a very long post in order to insist other posters are wrong.
And I see Syracute argues against very long posts but presumably only those made by those with a different opinion.
Just accept that not everyone agrees with you, is that so hard?

He can't win either way on Iran, more importantly Iran probably can't 'win' either way.

Galaxy

I don't often have chats with Trump though, if I did I would tell him to get a move on with regard to Iran. Possibly it is to the world's benefit that I am not involved in foreign policy.

You’re certainly right about Iran, he either moves fast on this now or it’s the end for the Iranians who want regime change.

It’s the ungoverned nature of his response that is most concerning, not just in Iran but all his foreign policy moves. The potential consequences of the US actions in Iran have not been planned for in any way as far as I can gather, and he thinks he is omnipotent (probably without even knowing what it means).

LemonJam 16:30 👏👏👏

westendgirl 16.49- thank you.
Maremia 16.58- thank you. I await to see what happens re Noem's impeachment.

Perhaps I should have used the word precis or resume (with two accute accents)or digest , and , yes I do agree with what was said and the way it was said.