Robert Jenrick has been sacked

TBH I don't think Trump is doing Farage/Reform any favours. Farage has been seen and heard to be a fan of the odious Trump and Trump's behaviour is certainly not winning him much applause in the UK. I'd be interested to hear what Reform's international policies are and the extent to which they align with Trump's vision of the world!

I agree with foxie48.

Jenrick may be welcomed by Farage but how long will that last?

Jenrick is very ambitious but Farage will insist on remaining the Leader and I don't see Jenrick playing second fiddle to anyone. He also did some dishonest dealings over a planning application when he was Housing Minister, showing he cannot be trusted.

The Reform Party, IMHO, have already shown that some of their ideas are unworkable and are relying on the immigration issue to win the next General Election.

They may well succeed if things don't improve, but we need to see what their policies are on the NHS (eg will they shrink it and make private medicine the first option?) and other areas people care deeply about.

And to be saddled with a load of Tory has-beens might not be such a "gift" after all. I expect Suella Braverman will join them next, and if Kate Hoey (a fanatical pro-Brexiteer) is the Labour politician referred to as joining them next week she will be no great loss to the Labour Party.

Galaxy

It isnt as simple as that. There are numerous subjects where it is a question of opinion, take abortion, there are very strong views on either side of that debate, there isnt one truth on that subject, there are opinions. Obviously many statements on issues can be challenged, if someone says the eath is flat you can show that is not true, if someone says I think the housing crisis is one of the most significant issues for young people then you could debate that opinion, there wouldn't be an absolute truth there but rather a range of views.

I'm not sure if you were trying, to reply to my comment Galaxy, in your post in your post Fri 16-Jan-26 07:39:14?

My point isn’t about whether a topic has an objective truth, but about how people approach the conversation.

Perhaps you could clarify.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

I think the way we mix up the three types of conversation is why some people feel so uncomfortable. I discuss things with my friends all the time but we have never once had a debate. However my AC's do debate (kindly) and that stretches me to firm up the facts behind the views I am forming. To me, it's how I learn.

If you want to explore ideas without having to defend them, join a discussion. In a discussion, views can be tentative and evolving, and references may be offered to explain or illuminate a point, not to “win” an argument.

If you want to defend a position with facts, a debate is for you.

But how do you make them identifiable on a GN thread. It would really need to be stated in the OP. Some people's views are immutable - I can't see how that can lead to discussion.

Freya5

friendlygingercat

He was Kemi's main rival and now he has gone. I didnt think much of her when she was elected (lifelong Tory that I am but always to the right) but she has come up in my estimation lately.

There is the crux of the matter . A rival. Where is the proof of his perfidious, if it was such, behaviour. Or did she oust him because.
Shame Starmer is not so quick on the ball though.

The proof includes irrefutable evidence as in extracts of a draft defection speech found on a printer detailing his criticism of the Tories and praise for Reform. He was plotting a damaging exit so Kemi sacked him.

Isn't that standard Tory politics? I don't ever see, in the past its been a little less extreme but only a little, a party that is there for all.

No, I don’t think it is DaisyAnneReturns. There are individuals in all parties who are out for themselves, and won’t hesitate to sell their former colleagues down the river. I agree with what eazybee said earlier on the thread about a by election being required when MPs defect part way through a parliamentary term. If that happened it would sort the men from the boys when it came to commitment to their new party.

Casdon I agree 👏👏👏

Message deleted by Gransnet. Quotes a delted post.

Another who thinks that MPs who defect to another party should stand for re-election. Tbh if my MP defected to Reform I'd be absolutely furious!

It is clear from the last general election results that the voters in Newark did not want a Reform MP.

Robert Jenrick

votes 20,968
share 39.2%
share change -23.9

Labour, Saj Ahmad

votes 17,396
share 32.5%
share change +8.6

Reform UK, Robert Palmer

votes 8,280
share 15.5%
share change +15.2

“Robert Jenrick, who was appointed Housing Secretary by Robert Jenrick in 2019, is to run for Tory party leader.

During his time as Housing Secretary he was no stranger to controversy.

RentGuarantor
Letwise

Tenancy Deposit Scheme
In 2020 The Sunday Times reported Jenrick had claimed expenses of over £100,000 for “a third home” in his constituency of Newark; in the same year the Public Accounts Committee claimed that Jenrick’s constituency had been awarded funding by his department as part of a process that was opaque and not impartial.

Also in 2020, during the early stages of the Coronavirus pandemic, the Daily Mail claimed Jenrick had flouted government restrictions by travelling 150 miles from London to a second home in Herefordshire where he was staying with his family, and then by travelling 40 miles to see his parents.

During his tenure at Housing there were also various sleaze allegations against Jenrick, with the biggest controversy concerning a planning decision made, against the advice of planning officers, for a £2 billion, 500-apartment London housing scheme led by media tycoon Richard Desmond. The move was subsequently ruled as unlawful.

In September 2021 Jenrick was sacked by Boris Johnson.

The following year he became the first MP to take in Ukrainian refugees under the government’s settlement scheme. The government launched the Homes For Ukraine scheme for British homeowners to apply to host Ukrainian refugees fleeing the Russian invasion.

Jenrick’s campaign manager for the upcoming Tory leadership election – MP Danny Kruger – says: “To have any path back to government we must win back those voters we have lost – across the board but particularly to Reform. At the same time, we have to bring our party together, united behind one set of coherent Conservative principles.

“The British people need to be convinced that we are the most responsible and competent party of government for us to have any chance of winning in 2029, especially when we know Labour are set to fail on so many important issues for our country.

“Rob Jenrick will do that. He has the energy, temperament and policy agenda to take on our rivals and lead us back to power in five years.”
An old article but it’s reminded me of some of Jenrick’s misdemeanours. Also interesting that he and Kruger are now in Reform. (And that Zahawi once called Farage a racist but that should be on the Farage thread).
How anyone can think these people are fit to govern this country is beyond me. He’ll also be vying for party leadership. They’ll be like rats in a sack.

foxie48

It is clear from the last general election results that the voters in Newark did not want a Reform MP.

Robert Jenrick

votes 20,968
share 39.2%
share change -23.9

Labour, Saj Ahmad

votes 17,396
share 32.5%
share change +8.6

Reform UK, Robert Palmer

votes 8,280
share 15.5%
share change +15.2

I do think he should resign and stand for re-election.
He is not representing his constituents any more.

Of course, he could be re-elected if he is popular enough but the people of Newark are the ones to decide.

Casdon

No, I don’t think it is DaisyAnneReturns. There are individuals in all parties who are out for themselves, and won’t hesitate to sell their former colleagues down the river. I agree with what eazybee said earlier on the thread about a by election being required when MPs defect part way through a parliamentary term. If that happened it would sort the men from the boys when it came to commitment to their new party.

I want to believe this and, of course it must be true. A Party isn't a homogeneous mass; it is made up of individuals. It would be interesting to work out why we don't see the person who just gets on and does a good job although that might take us back to a discussion about the press.

I agree that this should trigger a by-election; I can't imagine a more entitled stance than to believe people voted for you personally (although they may have done). Politicians stand on a platform; if they change that they should let the people review what they want.

foxie48

Another who thinks that MPs who defect to another party should stand for re-election. Tbh if my MP defected to Reform I'd be absolutely furious!

Agreed foxie, Casdon and GrannyGravy.

If my MP, for whom I voted, defected to another party (particularly Reform) I would also be furious. I’d be making my view known to him!

Any defection, regardless of party, should initiate a by election - no question!

😁

So many mentions of defection that I’m only relieved that so far the spelling and use of the word is correct 😁 maybe I spend too much time on pedants corner.

Allira

Doodledog

MollyNew

Serves him right, treacherous weasel.

That comment has made me laugh out loud (literally)😂

I'm making no comment on my feelings about Jenrick (I assume they can be surmised), but it tickled me. I don't know what weasels do to be assumed treacherous, but you never hear of a good one, do you?

What, treacherous - me? I'm just a sweet pussy cat.
How dare you compare me to that treacherous snake-in-the-grass Jenrick!

May I take this opportunity to apologise to all innocent weasels

Walter the Weasel accepts your apology.
😁

Marg75

I don't think it's just what I perceive as the state of the country, it's there for all to see. Yes I do think that Reform with the people they are assembling will make a difference and pull back us back from the brink. We certainly can't go on with Labour and the Conservatives have obviously had their time.

I so agree with you 👏👏👏

Calling for a by-election is pointless.

There have been a number of MPs who have 'crossed the floor' in the last few years, prompting calls for a by-election, but there never has been one.

Jenrick is the fifth MP to defect in the past 3 years. Also MPs, such as Corbyn, who have lost their party whip. No by-elections.

You have misunderstood MaizieD, we all know that the chance of a by election in this instance is negligible. What many of us agree though is that the rules should change, so that in future an MP has to submit to a by election if he or she wishes to defect,

The point is that Farage was vociferous in condemning Christian Wakeford and Labour when he crossed the floor writing in the DT, If he had any integrity, Christian Wakeford would call a by-election. but is silent when MPs cross the floor to Reform.

I suppose it depends on whether it makes a difference to how Parliament functions. With only five and now six MPs and few friends, Reform has no power in the HoC. I don't think any of them have committee positions.

Contrast when Philip Lee left the Conservatives to join the Liberal Democrats in September 2019. He left the government with no working majority.

Currently, the Tories have 118 seats and the Lib Dems 72. There would have to be a sizeable exodus of sitting Tories to change how the House works.

All the other former Tory MPs joining Reform don’t count for anything until 2029 and only then if they are put up as candidates. They bring experience but it means nothing for the next three years.

In case you don’t know. (C&P)
Difference Between Debate and Discussion | Comparison of ...
Debate is a structured, oppositional exchange where participants argue to win by proving their side right, often with rules and an audience, while discussion is a collaborative conversation focused on exploring ideas, sharing perspectives, and reaching mutual understanding or solutions, with less formal structure and an emphasis on joint insight. Key differences lie in their goals (winning vs. understanding), structure (formal vs. informal), and tone (adversarial vs. collaborative.

So if you’re determined to win you’ll be debating and if you’re more interested in collaborative conversation, exploring ideas, sharing perspectives, and reaching mutual understanding or solutions then you’re in a discussion.