Robert Jenrick has been sacked

Casdon

You have misunderstood MaizieD, we all know that the chance of a by election in this instance is negligible. What many of us agree though is that the rules should change, so that in future an MP has to submit to a by election if he or she wishes to defect,

Definitely.
They are not representing their constituents.

True Allira
How can they be representing the people who voted for them as a member of one party, when they’ve changed the party they represent? Unless they are re-elected.

An MP’s job is to represent all of their constituents whether they voted for them or not.

Sadly, they don’t end up doing so at a national level as they are bound by the party system and whipped to vote for policies they may not agree with and suspended if they rebel.

I’d rather an Independent any day of the week.

Most winning candidates in an election poll considerably less than 50%. More voters don’t want the winning candidate than do. Who represents them in a partisan system?

The Christian Wakeford example is interesting. He crossed the floor from Tory to Labour in 2022 and was subject to heavy criticism from Farage for not submitting to a by-election.

But … when he won the Bury South seat in 2019 for the Tories, he gained only 43.8% of the vote, 22,024 votes. The second placed candidate was Labour’s Lucy Burke with 43% 21,632 votes, a difference of only 402.

One could argue that it was so close, that when he defected, Labour was now getting a turn at being represented nationally.

When Wakeford stood again in 2024, he held the seat for Labour with 45.6% of the vote, 9360 votes ahead of his nearest rival, the Tory. The combined Tory and Reform vote was still 2,496 behind. Maybe he’s a good constituency man or won the seat on the general swing to Labour.

Unless defecting Tories, Kruger and Jenrick were working hard in their constituencies on local matters that they then raised in the HoC and that service has diminished or diminishes now they have joined Reform, how is it going to make a difference? Labour has such a large majority that six Reform votes are unlikely to be crucial in any division where Labour and Tories are opposed.

I should add that Kruger won his seat with only 35.7% and Jenrick only 39,2%, so far more voters didn't want them than did. When over 60% of people are not being represented, it usually makes little difference where the incumbent sits.

We desperately need Proportional Representation and Labour would be wise to start the ball rolling on this. Wales has the D’Hondt system. Why not in England too?

Mollygo

In case you don’t know. (C&P)
Difference Between Debate and Discussion | Comparison of ...
Debate is a structured, oppositional exchange where participants argue to win by proving their side right, often with rules and an audience, while discussion is a collaborative conversation focused on exploring ideas, sharing perspectives, and reaching mutual understanding or solutions, with less formal structure and an emphasis on joint insight. Key differences lie in their goals (winning vs. understanding), structure (formal vs. informal), and tone (adversarial vs. collaborative.

So if you’re determined to win you’ll be debating and if you’re more interested in collaborative conversation, exploring ideas, sharing perspectives, and reaching mutual understanding or solutions then you’re in a discussion.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

Allira

foxie48

It is clear from the last general election results that the voters in Newark did not want a Reform MP.

Robert Jenrick

votes 20,968
share 39.2%
share change -23.9

Labour, Saj Ahmad

votes 17,396
share 32.5%
share change +8.6

Reform UK, Robert Palmer

votes 8,280
share 15.5%
share change +15.2

I do think he should resign and stand for re-election.
He is not representing his constituents any more.

Of course, he could be re-elected if he is popular enough but the people of Newark are the ones to decide.

You’re absolutely right.

We don’t know as yet what the people in his constituency will do in regard to him, they will either think him a turn coat or think he’s seen the light.

GrannyGravy13

Well done Kemi 👏👏👏

She has denied him his moment of defection glory.

I agree, though I don’t like her much, imo, she played a blinder here

I absolutely believe that when an elected MP defects to another party there should be a by election. Only the constituency have the right to decide whether they prefer the mam (or woman) or the party.

MaizieD

Calling for a by-election is pointless.

There have been a number of MPs who have 'crossed the floor' in the last few years, prompting calls for a by-election, but there never has been one.

Jenrick is the fifth MP to defect in the past 3 years. Also MPs, such as Corbyn, who have lost their party whip. No by-elections.

If they had the courage of their convictions then they should resign as an MP to give their constituents a chance to choose an MP who represents them.

Could Jenrick then stand as a Reform candidate?

Oreo

Allira

foxie48

It is clear from the last general election results that the voters in Newark did not want a Reform MP.

Robert Jenrick

votes 20,968
share 39.2%
share change -23.9

Labour, Saj Ahmad

votes 17,396
share 32.5%
share change +8.6

Reform UK, Robert Palmer

votes 8,280
share 15.5%
share change +15.2

I do think he should resign and stand for re-election.
He is not representing his constituents any more.

Of course, he could be re-elected if he is popular enough but the people of Newark are the ones to decide.

You’re absolutely right.

I would be very annoyed if my MP did that.

And astonished (she's Labour).

Petition calling for an automatic by-election when MPs cross the floor

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/737660

Signed!

Actually I am hoping that this latest defection does harm to Reform and strengthens the conservative party. I am not a Conservative voter but we need a decent opposition that voters will support rather than being driven into the arms of Farage and his band of chancers. I can understand why dispirited voters might want change and be tempted to vote for Reform but I'd ask them to look across the pond to see where this has got the US. I genuinely think Farage/Reform would take us to a very dark place that would continue the divisions in society rather than try to heal them.

Can someone please explain precisely how two Tory MPs, who were in opposition anyway and have just shuffled further along the oppostion benches are no longer representing their constituents?

Reform is just the one issue, far right-wing of the Tories. Farage was a Tory, Tice was a Tory, Anderson was a Tory, Pochin was a Tory councilllor.

If you happen to have Kruger or Jenrick as your MP, you can, in theory, still contact them about local and personal issues and someone, if not them but a caseworker, will help you. I don’t know what happens in Clacton.

As I wrote above, the majority of voters are not represented at a national level. Over 60% of the people who live in Kruger’s and Jenrick’s constituencies did not vote for them.

Last year, Pochin won Runcorn and Helsby by just six votes. Again, over 60% of voters did not want her.

FPTP means that this pattern is represented throughout the country to a greater or lesser degree.

Labour gained a huge majority in 2024 with only 34% of the vote. It received a lower vote share than any party forming a post–war majority government. The Tories’ 24% vote share was 20 percentage points down on 2019 and lower than at any general election since 1832 but they still form the official opposition. LibDems won 12.2% of the vote share and 72 seats, Reform 14.3% and only four seats, Greens 6.7% and four seats.

In 2024, Reform effectively split the right wing vote to put Labour in power with that huge majority. Add the Tory and Reform vote in many constituencies and they would have returned a Tory.

On 14 July 2025, LibDem Sarah Olney introduced a Private Members’ Bill - the Elections (Proportional Representation) Bill. Like most Private Members’ Bill it will probably go nowhere.

A different Petition was launched to support the Bill. It closes on 1 February 2026. It has managed to garner only 115 signatures so this too will die a death. The names of MPs who have signed do included Jenrick, Kruger, Tice and former Reform MPs Lowe and McMurdock. Anderson’s and Pochin’s names are missing and I don’t suppose Farage can be bothered.

www.parallelparliament.co.uk/petitions/732593/government-to-support-the-elections-proportional-representation-bill/constituencies

One would think the underrepresented parties would make more effort to gain support for this from their constituents.

electoral-reform.org.uk/which-uk-political-parties-support-proportional-representation/

Labour has now rowed back on its 2022 Conference commitment to PR no doubt because it is in power but unless things change over the next three years, we are heading for a hung parliament in 2029 and all the horse trading that goes with that … and still most people won’t be represented at national level.

Jean-Jacques Rousseau was right when he wrote in 1762: The English people believes itself to be free; it is gravely mistaken; it is free only during the election of Members of Parliament; as soon as the Members are elected, the people is enslaved; it is nothing.

Other than wider enfranchisement, nothing has changed.

MaizieD

Petition calling for an automatic by-election when MPs cross the floor

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/737660

Signed✔️

I do not think it is pointless at all Maizie. The fact that something has not happened before does not mean it should not be discussed or improved.

When someone votes for an MP, they are also voting for the party platform that MP stood on. If an MP later changes party, it is reasonable for constituents to feel they deserve a fresh say. Wanting a by-election is not about punishment, it is about democratic accountability.

Progress often comes from small, steady steps and continued pressure, not from dismissing concerns outright. We can disagree on the solution without shutting down the conversation.

foxie48

Signed!

Actually I am hoping that this latest defection does harm to Reform and strengthens the conservative party. I am not a Conservative voter but we need a decent opposition that voters will support rather than being driven into the arms of Farage and his band of chancers. I can understand why dispirited voters might want change and be tempted to vote for Reform but I'd ask them to look across the pond to see where this has got the US. I genuinely think Farage/Reform would take us to a very dark place that would continue the divisions in society rather than try to heal them.

The Waifs and Strays Party.
#Ken Clarke describing UKIP.

Labour’s conference in 2022 did vote in favour of PR, on a motion backed by members and many unions. But the leadership never committed to making PR a real manifesto or government pledge — which you have interpreted as Labour backing off from the idea Graphite

In other words, PR was strongly supported at conference level, but it was never Labour leadership policy or a firm manifesto commitment, and the leadership maintained that PR is not its priority right now.

One reason discussions like this often struggle to develop is that people tend to approach them from firmly held partisan positions, which can make genuine exchange a bit harder. You cannot discuss with someone who posts as Graphite did as, although they ask for others to explain, they have already moved into debate mode where they simply defend an already held position.

Petition signed. Numbers ticking along nicely.

My point about the by-election argument made on the basis that voters are no longer getting what they voted for is that FPTP never represents voters fairly anyway. Maybe equally is a better word. The person sent to Westminster is rarely anyone who polls above 50% or even close. The majority of voters’ wishes are not represented.

I’ve lived for over 40 years in a constituency which had returned a Tory every election since 1950. In 2024, it finally swung. The Tories don't represent me at national level. Where was my representation for 40 years?

If Kruger and Jenrick each submit to a by-election they will either win or lose. And what would that achieve? If they won they would have a mandate for their extremist views … but it’s very unlikely to be from the majority of their constituents.

If they lose, four other parties will have one or two new MPs. This will make next to no difference to how Parliament functions for the next three and a half years because of the massive majority that Reform voters handed to Labour in 2024.

Reform has no power in Parliament. Meantime, I’d rather see Kruger and Jenrick sweat for the next three years, having to kowtow to Farage, not knowing if and when he will turn on them or if they will be out on their backsides come 2029 if not sooner if they fall foul of his dictatorship.

I do see the point about having a by-election if it were to make a material difference to how Parliament works, but under what circumstancess could it be with the current composition of the HoC? Unless hundreds of Labour MPs are about to cross the floor, Kruger's and Jenrick's defections make not a jot of difference. The entire Tory benches could join Reform and Labour would still have a huge majority.

DAR - when I ask people to explain, I am not trying to stifle debate as you seem to be suggesting. I would genuinely like to know what practical difference two by-elections would make.

There will be records showing to what extent Reform MPs do or don't support the Tories (or any other party) in debate and divisions. On most non-controversial issues, MPs have a free vote. Is there any evidence that Kruger's voting preferences have changed since he defected or that his defection has made any material difference to how Parliament works?

Institute of Government on defections:

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainer/mps-who-change-party-allegiance

You can see there that here have been earlier Private Members Bills on this issue that went nowhere. Few in Parliament have an appetite probably because it happens so infrequently that it make little material difference. Another GE will come along where the public can have its say again.

No Graphite that part was requesting discussion. Discussion seems to be what many/some would prefer. None of this is a criticism of you; just an attempt to unravel what makes thing uncomfortable for some. I'm hope you don't mind me using this as an example. I'm trying to work my own way through the discussion/debate thing myself. I think one of the problems is that British English relies on body language and nuance that cannot be replicated online.

The issue is that the paragraph about Labour’s attitude to PR is written as a statement of fact rather than as a viewpoint or question. In this case it’s also factually incorrect. When something is presented that way, it pushes the conversation into debate mode, because people feel they need to challenge or defend the claim. That’s different from inviting discussion, which would frame it as an open question or acknowledge uncertainty. As written, it’s not asking for input, it’s asserting a belief and looking for support for it.

I asked AI if it could reframe your original paragraph for discussion and this is what it suggested. I'm learning too so dont please think I'm intending to offend.

There are different interpretations of Labour’s current stance on PR compared with its 2022 Conference position, and it isn’t clear that everyone agrees on what has changed or why. Rather than treating this as a settled fact, it might be more useful to explore how people see Labour’s position, what they think motivates it, and how PR (or the lack of it) could affect representation and future elections. I’m interested in hearing different perspectives rather than arguing a fixed conclusion.

Bloody hell. They make me sick.

Hopefully Boris and Liz will soon defect to Reform too and then we can start building up a new Conservative Party where hopefully they work for the country rather than their own personal ambitions.
I certainly won’t be voting reform when it is full of people that put their own careers first.

I agree with your statement - what weasels the Tory party are / as for Farage he’s a despicable character . Him & his henchmen Tice , sniggering behind the MP putting the case forward to ban Groke - what sort of people think social media should have child abuse & misogyny integral of use ?

MaizieD

Petition calling for an automatic by-election when MPs cross the floor

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/737660

Thank you Maizie. I wonder why Labour wouldn't agree to this being introduced now?

Tories have always been ‘back stabbers’!
They all have such big egos, self centred & full of self importance!
None of them care about the British people for whom they are paid to serve
I’m fed up with them all -