Professor Jason Arday - plagiarism etc

If we proceeded like that any given political or social thread where people make remarks other don't like would be full of demands to retract and make total muddle.

FGT not lecturing, needful points. Notice amongst them stuff like
Labelling valid complaints stops institutions from fixing real bias
Subtle word choices can quietly lock in stereotypes about race, gender, and class

My point is simply as stated above - case by case, look at the individual. Don't slap labels on. I have not disagreed anywhere with points made that he should not stay in place of the allegations are correct nor that merit needs to be strictly in selection processes.

Wyllow3
I agree Latchman (not Katchman) isnt an ideal example (there were many others when I googled and btw none have been raised either as I have entered in the GN search engine) as he oversaw a great deal of fraud and knew it was happening although not directly taking part)

If there were many others when you googled that amplifies the question what made you choose to use a Jewish professor who had not been accused of plagiarism for your comparison?

I'd be careful about allegations "he oversaw a great deal of fraud and knew it was happening" as this does not chime with the investigation's conclusion

UCL has considered allegations of potential research misconduct concerning UCL staff under our Procedure for Investigating and Resolving Allegations of Misconduct in Academic Research and related procedures.

UCL confirms that the conclusion of its investigation is that Professor Latchman has no case to answer in relation to research misconduct. Professor Latchman has accepted that there were procedural matters in his lab that required attention.

He was sloppy, but not complicit as you've asserted.

Sorry Lathyrus3 I've cross posted and almost repeated you, I didn't refresh the page before posting.

You posted an untrue allegation Wyllow.

Lathyrus3

what I actually said word for word was

"Its it a mere co-incidence that *no fuss was made on GN made at all about Professor David Latchman, (The Master of Birkbeck, University of London, and a top geneticist at University College London (UCL) in the 2018-2018 scandal. It was in all the papers of course but no one picked on it to specially feature. He was white.

I did not accuse him of what you suggest. No allegations there as to the manner of his going and why, whatsoever.

Wyllow3 copied and pasted directly from your post of 22:44:28

I agree Latchman (not Katchman) isnt an ideal example (there were many others when I googled and btw none have been raised either as I have entered in the GN search engine) as he oversaw a great deal of fraud and knew it was happening although not directly taking part) you clearly say he knew the fraud was happening, which was not found by the investigation, so yes an untrue allegation!

I quite directly from your post.

“He oversaw a great deal of fraud and knew it was happening”

Thise are your words. They are there for everyone to see.

Today 22.24 in case you can’t remember.

A plain statement with no chance of misunderstanding.

Any discrimination was positive discrimination in that the normal due diligence that one would expect with any academic appointment was not done properly..

It could be argued that this could have been because of this man's ethnicity and unusual background, or it could just be because their due diligence procedures are sloppy and should be tightened up.

The problem is not the man himself but what went wrong in the appointment system that let him be appointed.

Lathyrus3

Today 22.24 in case you can’t remember.

A plain statement with no chance of misunderstanding.

It was today at 22:44:28 as in my post at 23:25:18 just so there's no further 'confusion' 😉

The problem is not the man himself but what went wrong in the appointment system that let him be appointed.

Jason Arday has been described as a fabulist, basically someone who writes fables, although there are more pejorative definitions. His claims about his 'books' (unpublished), fundraising charity work, and posts at other universities have been found to be false. Solicitors were employed to warn the Times to desist in their investigations, and a journalist from the DT was the subject of a four month police investigation concerning the impact of his work on Professor Arday's mental health. (No case to answer; investigation closed.)
This is the responsibility of Arday; he is not an innocent victim, and not slow in making accusations of racism when criticised.

Just being a bit pedantic here, but the Good Law Project petition currently has about 16,000 signatures in support of Jason Arday, not 100,000 as stated above.

Like many activists Arday is Autistic he is also dyslexic and had development delay, because of these difficulties he has been given special allowance during his progression into academia.

My question is should he hold a professorship educating our students with such extreme views

In terms of states of mind, the if the allegations regarding charity work or runs etc never happened, (as in his non academic life) it does seem as if there are aspects of a fantasist in there. Many people embroider past events to make then seem better, bigger, that they were, but its a matter of extent and context how much they matter.
Invention in one area of one's life may or may not impact or extend to others, depending on circumstances: only a full investigation will reveal that.

Whether it's necessary as he has resigned? Punitive or needful?

ariodante65

Just being a bit pedantic here, but the Good Law Project petition currently has about 16,000 signatures in support of Jason Arday, not 100,000 as stated above.

I said 10,000

David49 we have certainly tightened up standards. In the past many of us at uni - or indeed the world of work - came across lecturers or professors, the lazy, the "2 hours work a day then disappear", the disinterest in students, or over interest:

we are talking the 70's, but in my all women's college, I was appointed a male supervisor for my main last essay, who invited me out for a meal - not in itself improper - 5 children - and proceeded to try and take it a lot further. I backed out, and at that time didn't even think of mentioning it to my regular tutor. In other colleges some students found little or no support.
It's good that days have changed, but not always for the best as we found with Kathleen Stock.

Academia is not a "nice" place.

The whole things just ridiculous. No he should not be educating students with such views. Presumably he will be held accountable if he was deemed fit enough for the position in tge first place and knows wrong from right so he lied. The people that agreed to it are not up to their jobs either I suppose now he will blame his autism on his misplaced actions.

Autism may or may not have been the case, Allsorts, but he has chosen to go. It's not an excuse, it may or may not be a reason.

My opinion is that he has embroidered (lied and cheated) a life that has little resemblance of his reality.

No he shouldn’t be helping to shape young impressionable young people.

Wyllow3

Autism may or may not have been the case, Allsorts, but he has chosen to go. It's not an excuse, it may or may not be a reason.

We have autism in our family, they know right from wrong and truth from a lie.

Please do not fall into the trap and blame his wrong doings on autism.

“Many people embroider past events to make them seem bigger….”

Or even totally fabricate.

I absolutely agree with that.

Wyllow3 I cannot agree with you when you say Academia is not a nice place

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3

Autism may or may not have been the case, Allsorts, but he has chosen to go. It's not an excuse, it may or may not be a reason.

We have autism in our family, they know right from wrong and truth from a lie.

Please do not fall into the trap and blame his wrong doings on autism.

The problem with any neurodiversity issue is that it varies hugely between people. Very severe autism precludes leading a normal life and some have to be cared for or contained:

On the other hand, it may just be a part of a life where there are relationships with others and aspects of personal and moral conduct are perfectly understood and the person is self aware and has learnt to communicate well.

David49

Like many activists Arday is Autistic he is also dyslexic and had development delay, because of these difficulties he has been given special allowance during his progression into academia.

My question is should he hold a professorship educating our students with such extreme views

There is a difference between allowances being made because of physical or mental disabilities, -assistance with movement, making buildings accessible or bending rules - letting a student use a staff facility -, using an amanuensis in an exam, and so on

However, allowances should not be made for the finished work of scholarship. Either it is up to scratch or it isn't. The help should be limited to helping to achieve the goal.

But I go back to the same thing again and again. The problem lies entirely with the university, and universities where he studied for not doing due diligence on his work.

If a researcher, regardless of his politics, can run a few checks on some ones work and find so much plagiarism so easily, then the question is why did not the university who accepted or awarded the degree not find this out when the work was submitted?

I have a son in academia and know the extent to which plagiarism checks are run on students work - and, of course, now, less easy, AI checks. Why were they not done on this man's work, or if they were done, why did they not pick up his plagiarism?

I see this issue as not being about the man but about the universities.

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3 I cannot agree with you when you say ^Academia is not a nice place^

Like GrannyGravy, we have academics and people diagnosed as on the autistic spectrum in our family. We also have family members with other neurodiversity issues.

Being on the spectrum, dyslexic, adhd or more does not lead people into fantasising their achievements or life story as this man appears to have done. Underlying personality problems are likely to be relevant.

Academia - not a nice place to be is a sweeping personal view, fine to express it but doesn’t make it true