Eldest Daughter problems, advice needed..

This must be awful but I can see her 'spoilt' point of view. Her sister messes up and is rewarded with a family plus adoring mum! It is very easy to see your children as 'the good one' or 'the selfish one'. Both are very lucky to have such a supportive mum. Only advice I can give is to avoid discussing DD1 with her sister. It will only end in tears.

Sounds like a normal 20 year old to me but could be reacting to what she sees as you rewarding her younger sister for getting pregnant.
Twenty is fairly young to be struggling on the property ladder by herself unless of course you are going to help with the purchase of a property.

I wouldn't dare. In fact any conversation turns into an argument. She was always the good one but then her opinion of herself over inflated so she could do no wrong.
The other day she said "I washed up the pots and you never thanked me" to which I said we all pull together and muck in, no one gets thanked for each task that's normal day to day life so what makes her feel we should all thank her.. She has forgotten what thank you is as I haven't heard her use a thank you in years

I haven't rewarded her sister, I've stood by her as I would do with both my daughters, I just feel sad that the bond we had left several years ago and I don't know how to get it back.
She seems to get annoyed by my presence, I have to stop thinking of what a lovely daughter she was and how close we were up to about her 15th birthday as this just upsets me too much.
She always was a daddy's girl and our youngest always had anger issues up to 2 years ago but now says you never appreciate your mum until you are one.
I really don't know what to do, I don't want her to leave but I don't want to be spoken to like this anymore
My mum and dad died in the last few years so I really have no one to ask advice and I'm still in my 40's...

She is behaving a bit prima donna'ish and I can see why you're so exasperated [and why you felt like leaving home]. But I do think she's hurting and is probably confused about her feelings. No matter what the age is or the circumstances there is always sibling rivalry; sounds like a small child doing the 'behaving badly to get attention' thing to me [but I'm no expert]. Think all of your family would get a shock if they had to live by another families rules. My son's ex girlfriend spent a lot of time at my house for several years and I often used to shut myself away in my bedroom when she was here; I'm very easy going on the outside but sometimes I just want to shout to everyone 'get out of here and leave me alone for a bit'.

...also think having the baby around is causing havoc with her hormones.

I know the feeling well ..

What I've just messaged her in an attempt to sort things out

I really don't know where we went wrong, I do know my presence annoys you so I will try to stay out of your way. It upsets me the way you speak to me, it's with such anger. Are you annoyed at me for standing by Courtney when she got pregnant, what would you rather I did.... This is my last try at an olive branch but if you really do not want to get on with me then I will keep out of your way. We are a family or that's what I thought .. Here for each other as you know I would be for you but I would never say to my mum "fuck off" whatever she said to me. I know you've said I need to earn your respect but is not carrying you during pregnancy, going through a caesarean operation, spending 5weeks in intensive care with you and bringing you up to be independent enough to earn enough respect to actually be civil...

Whoa, wrong approach Optimi. A child shouldn't have to feel guilty because you had a difficult birth and a C section.

Oh dear....I'm afraid that sounds rather resentful. I hope you haven't sent it?

Agree, Please don't sent this message.

You really need to just state how you feel and what you expect.Then walk away and do not get into an argument. Please try not to point the finger it will just make things worse. Try not to say 'you do this or you do that and you make me feel. We are all responsible for our own feelings. We cannot change people unless they want to change.

Also I agree that any child must not be made to carry the guilt of a difficult birth or the fact that the parent carried her through pregnancy, that is what we do.

The 'fuck off' is pretty common amongst teenagers, yes, it is obnoxious and vulgar but it is pretty much what a lot of them say when angry.

My son was very difficult at 18 and he chose to live in separate accommodation because it was becoming unbearable at home, I was on the verge of a breakdown. We were lucky to find a wonderful lady who had a sort of 'half way' house for teenagers who were finding it difficult at home (there are a lot of them) He happily moved there but I know now that he has quite a lot of resentment about it. I did ask him to move back but he said that our relationship is good so it may spoil it.

Maybe try writing down the fact that you love her and choose somewhere neutral to meet, say a coffee shop or park to have a talk about how to progress. Again without recriminations or blame.

I hope it sorts itself out for you.

Thank you for all your advice. Its a relief to know that this is normal behaviour for a twenty year old. I think because I moved out at 16 and was married at 20 I thought that my daughter didn't need mothering anymore.
I was angry last night and unfortunately did send the message but since have sent a nicer message following your advice.
I deleted my account hoping it would delete this message as I don't want my girls to read yhis but it didn't.
I have asked for this thread to be removed but I do appreciate your advice..
Lets hope things can get sorted, I do feel better knowing this is normal behaviour for a twenty year old.
Thank you

Oh dear. I hope you can remedy the situation.

I think you need to look at the situation from your older daughters point of view...she feels cut out from the family and is rebelling....i do think it was the wrong message to send out as it was all about you and your other daughter not asking how your older daughter is feeling about the situation and the best way to resolve things...

Don't leave us optimist, come back under a new name! it is a great place to let off steam or have a laugh, instead of possibly blowing up at home. If you never mention Gransnet, the family is unlikely to ever look on here. If you share a computer, remember to clear your history after each visit.
This is a great place for advice, fun and information.
I hope things get easier soon.

Thanks everyone.. I feel more positive about the situation now which is a good start

Yes, do stay around optimist. You did absolutely the right thing to send another message. I hope you can find a way through it - you're obviously a close family.

I don't agree that a twenty year old speaking to her mother like that is "normal". A twelve or thirteen year old maybe. Minibags has said it once to me. She won't say it again (not to me anyway) even if she thinks it.

DD1 moved out into a shared, rented house when she was twenty. Her decision entirely. There was no pressure. She was just ready to spread her wings and be independent. So was I at that age. I married at twenty-one.

DD2 went to work abroad when she was twenty.

When she complained that you did not thank her for washing the pots, pwehaps you could have said "Oh I didn't notice, Thank you." and then (with a smile) "But I wash them every day, do you thank me whenever I do them?" It could be a chance to suggest sharing the chores.

It isn't normal for a 20 year old to speak to her mum like that but I don't think the family situation is totally normal [I don't mean that in a bad way].I moved back to my parents home when I was @19/20 and it just didn't work. I had a few arguments with my daughter that were of epic proportion [they were almost Shakesperean to the point hat I wanted to laugh sometimes and say 'I wish we were writing this down'], but she never told me to f off. What she did say though was, 'mum, once you'd lost your temper I'd won'. Funny age, 20. At the time you think you're so grown up but, looking back you're still almost a child [albeit a child with hormones].

I moved out when I went to uni. As medical students get very little holidays, it meant that I had moved out. I moved back for the year before my marriage, but was very relieved to move into my own house again.

The one thing that the message did not say is that you love her. I know you do not like her at the moment (and that is understandable, given her behaviour), but above all else she needs to know you love her whatever she might do.

My DDs are in their 30s and no phone conversation goes by without me telling them I love them.

Do it - please just do it! It won't wave a magic wand and make things instantly better; but she needs to know this.

Sibling rivalry by the sounds of things your daughter is probably feeling really left out with having to move rooms and make way for your daughter her boyfriend & baby,she knows it is for the right reasons but that doesn't stop her being upset about it does it.
Its a pity you sent that e-mail as I do think it is a very impersonal way to give your feeling to a close family member but glad you tried to delete it and made amends with a new message.

Ok ladies, I agree, it isn't 'normal' for a 20 year old to speak to a mother like that and none of mine ever have. I suppose I was seeing this particular 20 year old as acting like a young teenager from the description.

I do hope it gets sorted Optimista

As Mishap says tell her you love her. I tell mine every time I speak to them.