should the children be more important than the relationship

You did all marry grown ups, didn't you???!!!

Forgot the there

I think the children's needs should always come first, they didn't ask to be born! I just so strongly disagree about what those needs are.

Children needs lots of different experiences so that they can cope with new experiences. They need to be loved by as many family members as possibly and be comfortable being away from Mum and/or Dad.

How is a child who has been clung to by its mother going to cope when it goes to school? How is it going to cope if mum has to go into hospital? What if the parents split up and it spends time with each? Children are not possessions, they should be allowed to grow up in all respects.

I also strongly object to the hatred of men. DH and I have been married for a very long time and I just don't recognise that description. He has his faults but I am not perfect either. Ethel it sounds like you are very blinkered and your view is right regardless. I am sorry to say this and it is not intended to hurt but I do think you need to open your eyes to reality and see life in a broader way.

Sorry if I have repeated anything said before but I only skimmed the posts because the OP's views seem to me to be very extreme.

Can't help wondering if op ( consciously or subconsciously) is hoping to see her DD following in her footsteps, dumping the man and 'enjoying' a similar relationship with her only daughter, but this time including G'ma.
Wonder too if this would've worked the same way if DGD had turned out to be a DGS.
I too am happily independent and have no space in my life for a live-in man but don't have this warped attitude.

dumping the man You all assume an awful lot from reikiethel's posts

Funny thing is, my two will now go away happily on Scout/Cub camps, school trips, sleepovers etc. without giving it a second thought. You can't rush it though. Best go at the child's own pace.

Ethelbags/Reikilady's posts have all been quite reasonable. And I agree with her. Don't know why this thread has turned out to be combatative. Oh! Yes I do! #gransnet

May I ask a question * Reiki* if your daughter was always with you, do you feel her GPs missed out or felt that they had missed out by not having the opportunity to enjoy what you are going to enjoy with your DGD?

I often look back and wonder if my parents might have felt one way or another about things I as a grandmother are now experiencing.

"I informed my late husband that once we had our child he was in second place and all my life was centred around DD" Unbelievable! You are winding us up I assume.

Because a man might like a bit of attention, as indeed we all do, does not mean he is a "spoilt brat."

Partners need to nurture their relationship in order to provide a stable background for their children; and it is good for children to learn that they cannot always come first.

Your DGD will be with someone she knows well, she will be thoroughly spoiled and will love every minute of it. In the meantime your daughter and her partner will have some precious time together. What's not to like, as they say?

perhaps Eb lived close to the GPs and so they saw them during day times. (As was the case with our situation)

'Nurturing' the relationship should happen before the kids are born. Don't start a family if a relationship is likely to be in need of nurturing.

* Jings* perhaps they did.

I know one of my little joys in life is bedtime and stories with our little ones and we have been fortunate to have them all from weeks if not days old for various reasons.

I just wondered how the grandparents felt , as personally I would have been a little sad to miss them staying over.

I also wonder whether we have this very fluid relationship with our grandchildren because my girls had the same with my parents. Is it something that goes in families?

ah but you don't buy a dog and pat it once * Jings* , there's a lifetime of mutual nurturing going on between you and your pet

When our GSs were left with us it was because Mum and Dad wanted to, perhaps, do Xmas shopping without small children around. Or because Mum was tired and needed a break. Or to meet up with old friends from uni. Nurturing their relationship never came into it.

Well, we lived with my granny. She was my substitute other parent. You can't get closer than that. I loved her loads.

My boys are coming to stay next week btw. I'm not a Monster Granny!

Yes. I do like reading bedtime stories. Not quite as much as I did with my ownkids though. I find it harder to get comfortable on the bed these days!

Especially as one of 'em sleeps on a blow up bed on the floor!

Jing I'm sure you're not a monster granny

It was more common to live with or close to your grandparents when I was a child , its not like that any more. That's quite sad too. No easy popping in after school.

I might shut up now.

To answer the title question NO !

Bowlby's theories have not been totally discredited and he was not the person who did experiments with monkeys and cloth mothers; that was Harlow some years after Bowlby's work. Bowlby's theory was that children could indeed attach to multiple caregivers from about 10 months onwards, if they had formed strong attachments to a main caregiver as infants. His work was based on studying the reactions of children when separated from their mothers in day nurseries and hospital settings. Attachment theory has developed enormously following on from those days. I don't think Bowlby or any other psychologist/ psychotherapist/ whatever would disagree that under 5's can benefit from spending time with grandparents or other significant figures.

My children and now grandchildren (and indeed me) have always spent time with other people from the moment they came off the breast. How on earth do you expect children to be confident around other people unless they learn to be independent? I am not suggesting weeks and weeks away unneccesarily but the idea you have to be joined at the hip is ridiculous. Indeed we had a family living near us who refused to allow their daughter to be away from home overnight with anyone, not even grandparents. The inevitable happened and the mother was rushed to hospital with suspected appendicitis, the father was away on business - so the first time the poor little girl HAD to be farmed out was in an emergency with a sick mother. You can imagine the effect on her.

I am glad to say my grandchildren stay with me regularly, allowing their parents a much needed break from which they return refreshed and invigorated.

Jalima - you are quite right - it is the 'easing-in' that must start early - nothing worse than what happened to the little girl near us.

Jings I know that feeling, we have bunk beds and that always involves some contortions

OMG! Yes. I can imagine.

40 odd years ago we looked after a friend's 10 month old for a couple of weeks while her parents and older sister toured Switzerland. No mobile phones in those days so we couldn't contact them at all. She is now a fine adult with children of her own and appears not the least bit damaged by the experience. She knew us well and had spent a lot of time in our home so it was not a big deal. The hardest part was giving her back.

A few years later when we had moved further away and didn't see so much of them I had to have a major operation so my two year old went to stay with them. I can assure you he is now a very confident adult and doting father.