should the children be more important than the relationship

Nightowl You're right, it was Harlow who did experiments with monkeys, but Bowlby based a lot of his theory on these experiments. Bowlby did disagree with the theory of multiple attachments. He argued that 0-5s needed an attachment with a "mother" and that other relationships weren't relevant.

Some of his work is important, as it lead to further research on the important of attachment. It's now widely believed that a secure attachment with caregivers, male or female, is paramount, so we have Bowlby to thank for that.

I feel very sorry for men in the situation described in the OP. Marriages are precious things and don't just thrive by themselves. It is not good for children to be the sole focus of the mother's attention. Children need to learn what a strong marriage is about and that it is something that matters. And they need the security of knowing that, when they become adults, they are not the sole source of their parents' happiness, but that those parents have a life of their own.

Caring about a marriage and being a responsible parent are not mutually exclusive - they go hand in hand; it is not either/or.

Very true, Luckygirl, especially your last sentence.
I never understand people who have to measure love. You get ridiculous posts on Mumsnet with 'who do you love best- your DC or your DH?' As if you can compare the two.
I can't help thinking there is a certain amount of insecurity with the mother secretly pleased that their DC will cry at bedtime without them, rather than being please that they are quite happy and secure without someone else.
The more people who love your child, and the more people they love the better- love expands and it doesn't take anything away from the parent.
Someone mentioned earlier that adult problems often occur when the mother was 'devoted'- I find the same, they can become very self centred and spoilt and treat their mother like a doormat.

Luckygirl and Leticia very wise words.

Yes indeed. Although this started as a very sad thread some really beautiful and heartfelt thoughts have been expressed.Our. twin grandchildren aged 8 have stayed with us for at least 3 nights a week since they were born.If they ever voice a preference to go home e we let them with no questions asked. It has only happened once with one of them. They love their parents with all their hearts but are quite happy to be separated. Recently my granddaughter went to a sleepover party.Their was one very unhappy little girl there but DGD took her under her wing being very confident at being separated from loved ones.

Correction- I see that I wrote without someone else when of course I meant with someone else.

Modern life means that the family has become very nuclear- it is inevitable as work takes us all over the place- but I can't help thinking it was better for children when they were the centre of an extended family.

I am very much in favour of 'it takes a village to raise a child'.

My eldest was my only child for his first 8 yrs and I made a huge effort to integrate with family and friends- not to 'make him stand on his own feet' but for his emotional health.

They are only going away for a couple of nights! A break from each other does parents and children, the world of good. I benefited from this, having a great Mum and Dad who I knew my children were very happy with . I have done the same for my GC.

To me what is terrible is both parents working and leaving a young child in a nursery from 8 am to 6 pm!

You have some strange ideas Reikilady

I'm blowed if I can see any "beautiful thoughts" on this thread. All I can see is carping and bitchiness unkindness towards ethelbags.

beautiful thoughts
You have some strange ideas Reikilady not necessarily strange, just not the same as yours milkflake.
Other people are allowed another viewpoint surely?

Young people do want more me time than our generation ever did. But it hasn't meant that more marriages have survived than did in our generation.

I don't necessarily think a night away from mummy and daddy does children the world of good. It may do the parents the world of good, but as for the child, it depends on the age and circumstances. For young children it may not be so beneficial unless they are very used to spending time with the GP. And I would certainly never leave a young child with anyone other than a close relative they are used to spending time with.

My own DGC never spent a night away from me (explained in previous post) but it has not meant that they are insecure and clingy - quite the contrary in fact. They are secure, independent, sociable and very adventurous.

All I can see is carping and bitchiness unkindness towards ethelbags
I agree jingls

If you feel so strongly about your GD being left for the weekend, why did you agree to look after her in the first place Reikilady?

Because she loves her to bits?

Because children who are always put first expect their mothers to do as they ask! And the mother does.

Oh for goodness sake! EB is obviously doing what is expected of her, and no doubt she will enjoy it. But she is just having a bit of a moan on Gransnet, and I really thought that was allowed.

Because children who are always put first expect their mother to do as they ask! And mother does.

Sorry- don't know why posted twice.

Don't ever moan on Gransnet.
It heralds a barrage of virtue signalling.
Actually, we have looked after DGC when their parents have gone away, and DH did ask why they were going without the children, he was why anyone would want to do that.

I'm gobsmacked! When I was a single parent with my daughter, she stayed overnight with my parents regularly from about a year old, to give me a break from constant childcare. She loved it, they loved it. Later my (now) ex-husband and I had weekends away and both my daughter and our son stayed with one or other set of grandparents, again, everyone had a great time. It was never a case of my ex-husband putting his need for attention infront of the children's needs. It was just us having some time away. Everyone benefited. My daughter now has 2 sons of her own, 4 and 1.5. They stay with me and my second husband overnight regularly so she and her partner can go out and not have to worry about getting up early. The older one stayed with us for 4 days when his little brother was born.

If people want to spend every waking hour with their children that's fine, not everyone does and as long as the children are with loved and trusted relatives or friends, and having a nice time, there's nothing wrong with that at all.

The OP did ask "am I wrong" ?

People are just answering her question I think.

I had the impression from previous posts that the OP regularly looks after her DGD anyway, and they enjoy various activities together (climbing trees etc.).

So it's not as though the odd overnight stay is going to come as a shock to the child - she'd probably really enjoy spending more time with Granny.

I don't think the OP is wrong about parents leaving their children with family members but then nor is she right. Every family have their own opinions and ways of bringing up their children. what works best is that the wives /husbands/partners are like minded. As a child I was part of an extended family. We were looked after,loved and nurtured by grandparent and aunties. My children were bought up in the same way. my grandchildren have followed suit. I've had all eight stay with me for days on end from just weeks old. It's like a second home. I love it when the come here and they know were their toys are kept and treat our home like they belong. None of them ever fretted for their parents. I can still see two little cousins. one of 3 the other four singing in 'their' bedroom' Your right about both parents putting their childrens needs before their own. I agree that if the man behaves like a spoilt brat and demands to be put before the children then she's best rid,but life is never never that black and white nor that easy.

Euston a thought......perhaps they are planning giving you another grandchild ?

Oops, autocorrect took over there! Lol it should read, just a thought, .....perhaps they are planning on giving you another grandchild ?

After our son was born, if my husband had said to me that I was now in second place and all his attentions would from now on be concentrated on our son, I would have been devastated. I think such a statement would be likely to damage most relationships. A happy and relaxed relationship between parents is, I think, not only better for them but more likely to create a secure and happy base for the children.

When I was very young, my mum was quite possessive and over-protective of me, and dad was, to some degree, kept on the sidelines. With hindsight I realise that it fulfilled her need to be centre of attention but it affected my confidence and ability to be decisive and independent. It also meant that, at a young age, I did not have a very affectionate relationship with my dad, although it improved as I got older.

Of course, when you have children your priorities change, and going out or going away requires careful planning and organisation. But I think it's good for children to spend time away from their parents and with other relatives - as long as they're happy to do so. I was very close to my granddad and used to stay with him (my granny died quite young) now and again. It's a relationship that was a great source of comfort - and fun - to me. Parents are probably the most important people in young children's lives but that doesn't mean that they don't need or benefit from other close relationships. Our grandchildren often stay at our house and have a lovely time. We tend to have more time and energy to play with them - and it gives their parents a bit of a breather.

Having said that, I do think that the needs and feelings of children should always come first when marriages/relationships break down, and that might mean parents having to pay extra attention to their children and to keep any new relationships very low key for a fair period of time.

I love having my grandchildren to stay - and they love coming for "sleepovers." We have always seen the children regularly, have gone on holiday with them fairly often, and we have a lot of fun going out with the children - they ask to come and stay and in no way are "left" by their wonderful parents. Children benefit from growing up in loving families and spending time with family members. My late mother looked after my children when I worked, although back then I rarely left them overnight, and my children grew up having a very good relationship with their grandmother. Parents benefit from having a bit of time to themselves knowing that their children are in a loving, safe place - and having a good time.

When I had my son the only advice my mother gave me was the same as that given to NanaandGrampy by her Gran. i.e. that I should not neglect my relationship with my husband as my son would grow up and make his own way in the world and ideally the first relationship, with my husband, should have continued to flourish.
My mother put her 6 on a pedestal and before anything/anyone else in life - my parents split up after 25 years of marriage.
I was a stay at home mum and my son would often spend a Saturday, with an overnight stay, at my mothers house where my two sisters also still lived. He thrived on it and once a year my DH and I would have a week or a long weekend away without him.
Of course I missed him, but he was with people who loved him as much as we did. I was with him all day every day apart from those times he was with my family - how does that make me a worse parent than one who works and leaves their child with strangers who are receiving payment to look after children that they have no family ties to?