Regrets about being estranged from people..

I really have a hard time with the " toxic" word. It seems to be the new thinking that a person is toxic if they do this or that. What I don't understand is that even if the person is what nowadays is called toxic , why do people have to estrange themselves? Why can't they change " their " behavior in response to it? We all have been at work or home with toxic people. It's ridiculous in my opinion to run around categorizing people and deciding who is toxic or not and estranging yourself. I have a mentally ill family member. It would have been so easy to just say they are toxic and never speak to them again. But instead I went for counseling and changed MY behavior and responses so I feel better. There was no need to estrange myself. Now for those that don't have a family member or friend with a mental illness, I guess one has to ask themselves whether they are estranging themselves due to not wanting to cope with the situation or because that person truly deserves the estrangement.

CBT practitioners don't need 'a story' from the past to work with. They work in the here and now to help people look at things in a different way - to challenge negative thoughts. The way we think, affects the way we feel, which affects the way we behave. The only aspect of that we can change is our behaviour. Changing the way we behave very often brings on a change of thoughts and therefore we feel better about things. Very often people see CBT as dragging up the past - that's not a principle of CBT. It's a very effective strategy.

Everyone's got to find their own way. notyetagran's words ring particularly true for me at present. I find my life getting better with the help of a twelve step org. called CODA, Co-Dependents Anonymous. It addresses the many ways we can get into trouble in our relationships and the possible sources of difficulty. I don't go for the God bits but just adopt the word 'Good' instead.

To add to my post above, i spoke to mu daughter in law the night before on fb and she said to "pop over" i said i may be a little bit later than planned because i had a couple of deliveries to do (work) first. She didn't reply - i guess my naive self should have read something into that, but no. I have never said a bad word to her about anything, but i have watched her put gifts from me up for sale, i have seen photos of my little grand daughter and she never has toys from me in photographs and is never wearinf clothes i bought for her - things bought prior to the rudeness and the estrangement. But, a big fuss is made when the other grandma buys things and photos are taken. It is completely horrible. My son and i used to be so close, and i can only think that this has happened because of discomfort our close family has caused her. He hasn't seen his siblings either since he cut me off, everyone is reeling from the stupidity of it all and the downright meanness.

My husbad died and leading up to his death his sister was not supportive at all. Two years later after several ignored e-mails from me she did not send a birthday card. I can only assume that she does not want any contact with me - no loss really. I have decided to concentrate on people that really matter - time is precious and life is for living. I am sure that I would feel different if it was a brother or sister son or daughter that I was estranged from.

My step-son has cut himself off from me after my DH death 3 years ago - he always knew better than any-one else Drs etc - had to be right. When DH was in Hospital he tried to take control as he was his son (despite living over 100 miles away) & I was only "his step-mother" (despite us being married over 20 years). I had cared for my DH through severe depression on my own). My step-daughter remained more supportive & my daughter who adored DH as regarded him as her Dad.

Step-son was very selfish when DH was alive despite living only a few miles from us rarely visited.

After DH's Funeral he asked for his Dad's special stamps (said young grandson wanted to collect stamps- in reality he thought they were valuable!!) - I told him I couldn't find them. He later asked me again so I told him DH must have sold them as I couldn't find them which lead to a row. I sent him DH's favourite cufflinks with a note to say he might like them to remember his Dad by - no thank so whether he ever received them I do not know.

It has been his decision to cut contact totally - no Christmas or Birthday cards received by me so I no longer send them to either him & his girlfriend or my 2 youngest step-grandchildren.

I still have some contact with my step-daughter, son-in-law & grandchildren (now 18 & 21)

I have a lovely DD, her OH & my adorable 6 year old GS - do I feel I'm losing out by this "toxic" person no longer being in my life -NO, NO, NO (apologies for capitals) my life is full of people I chose to be friends with & life is richer for it. Life is too short for regrets.

Even though mandela died a long time ago the family are still fighting over his estate.

I'm assuming from your post that their might be some sort of financial gain.

you have my sympathy

My son in laws mother hasn't spoken to him or my daughter in nearly 3 years over an argument about a cup of tea that wasn't made for her. She says she felt disrespected. My brother hasn't spoken to our mother in nearly 3 years because he wasn't invited for Christmas - not true none of us were or or are indeed ever invited to visit our Mum - we just go see her because shes our Mum.He doesn't speak to our sister either , again over a misunderstanding nearly 20 years ago. He hasn't seen his 2 children from his 2nd marriage in over 15 years again because of a row between them and wife no 3 and he took her side.I and my youngest brother have tried to be peacemakers to no avail. Mum is 86 this year and I know a time will come when he will regret his actions. I have no idea what to do about any of it either.

Late husband had a volatile relationship with daughter in law which caused a rift. Didn't even get to see their third child until she was two years old. The disagreement was between him and her, not with me, but I got caught up in the fallout. He could be a bad tempered viscous drunk. As a result we were told to stay away from them and their children, which to save any more stress, we did. As a result of his drinking he developed cancer and mellowed a lot and still insisted that he did not want to see our son or his family because of the way they had treated me. He admitted that he was at fault but wouldn't forgive them for the harsh and unwarranted treatment they meted out to me. He didn't ask to see our son while on his death bed, but my other son intervened and told him that dad needed to see him. Was a bit tense for a while but it helped to mend the rift. The relationship between son and his family is now on a rather tentative truce. They call when they need something but I don't think we will ever have the loving relationship we had when they were young and they depended on my 24hour a day help when they had a very bad start to family life in their teens

I had a dear friend - someone I much miss.
Obviously I "did" something [I have no idea what!] because at a formal party - when I wanted her to meet my daughter - she cut us both dead. About a month later she publicly cut me dead once more.
That was more than a decade ago.
I asked her best friend what I'd done wrong, but all she would say was "You may not even have done it..."
She is now estranged from that best friend, and another very close friend, to the extent that she has moved out of the area and nobody knows where she now lives.
I don't know what I "did", but - looking back - I once saw her at a very vulnerable time and I can only suppose she thinks I told others about it [I did not!].
In the end it is her loss, but it still niggles...

Well I have two new estrangements, my brother died suddenly after surgery complications. I emailed my sis in law (not mother of his grown children, they'd divorced and she died several years ago) many times to see how she is, and I get no answer except for short curt, almost rude responses after years of happy email and skype contact. I don't have much contact with niece and nephew, but when I do all is fine. I am thinking now the marriage was not happy in later years despite building a dream home in the sun and that she is glad to have her adult stepchildren out of her life, though she was glad enough for their help with the arrangements etc.

I also had a friend in the US I'd known for 30 years. She's become a right-winger, hates Obama, but not a Trump fan. We don't have strong US political opinions as I've been away for so long now. She got stroppy because I didn't agree with her. 30 years of friends...gone! I have heard this is common in US families/friendships now. Very sad.

So I am just trying to move on... I have my family here and it's growing!

Sending hugs... and to all who are confused and upset.

As someone who has has a mental illness if I stayed in contact with my MIL god knows where I'd be. I'm on tablets, had CBT and had classes on panic disorders. It was my councillor who told me to research toxic relationships. She gave me paper work and help sheets on how to behave.

I was in labour with DD2 for 3 weeks. I had medical intervention and was up and down from the hospital. Meanwhile my MIL was texting DH about how he wasn't making any time for her and how selfish he is.
When DD2 finally did arrive I'd gone 2 weeks over, so I'd been in labour for 5 weeks. Not even a text from her.

Within that 5 weeks and another 6 weeks after She'd told family I had an eating disorder, I didn't and never have. She made it impossible for her to visit then blamed us, she ignored DD1s birthday, spread lies about me on social media, texting nasty things to Dh and threatened me. Do you know why? Because we took a step back, didnt bend over backwards for her. We couldn't! Everything that my councillor said would happen did, it was like reading from a book. We had FIL ringing blackmailing us. Texts. Illnesses surfaced.

I had PND with DD1 and my midwife told us it might happen again with DD2 so to avoid what we did last time and just relax. That's what we told everyone. Family and friends. We had months of hell because of her.
I'm so glad I prepared myself with councilling before it kicked off as I was stronger mentally and knew how to disengage.

Life is too short to be treated that way. That was just 1 episode from her, we'd had years before all that too.

Anya, you gave a very good description of the type of personality that can cut people out of their lives. My sister did this to our whole family, just cut us all out of her life, none of us knew what we could have done. Several years later she wanted to 'become a family again' and whilst being cautious, we did become a family again. It turned out my sister had had some severe mental health problems and had been mentally ill, but improved after treatment, and whilst we now are very close again, as we were before the break, she still suffers on and off and needs a lot of support, especially since her husband died some five years ago. Almost all of the traits you mention Anya were/ are present to a greater or lesser degree. I should mention that no one fell out with my sister, she was just ill. I don't know how I'd cope with a toxic mother in law, but I have ended a couple of friendships that seemed to have run their course and which I felt were becoming toxic because I feel if a friendship is becoming so toxic that I would be upset after every meeting, it becomes no longer beneficial, and therefore best left. Some people are unfortunately intent on making points in order to bolster their own self esteem and in doing so they cause pain to others, so just allowing the friendship to die seems the best option.

this happened to me too Beth22. Luckily she has now moved away from the village. All very unpleasant. She went around saying I was depressed, had mental health issues etc. Mostly because she wasn't getting her own way.[I had a leg in plaster for almost 6 months and the last straw was Christmas - she still expected an invite to lunch - none of her 4 children will have her]. I'm sure her new neighbour's will soon find out what she has become.

I am estranged from my eldest brother, but knew he lived in Southport, for around 3 months a couple of years ago I started to have really strange thoughts that he had died!, I trawled his local newspaper for obituaries and found his house online and it was for sale. I just couldn't shake off this 'feeling' that something had happened. Around Christmas of that year, my other brother who lives in Cyprus contacted me to tell me that our brother had been in a really bad accident and was touch and go for survival! He had apparently EMIGRATED to Australia in the July, had the road traffic accident in October and was eventually discharged from hospital the following February. I get the odd progress report from my brother in Cyprus as he is in some contact with him (although the emigration was news to him as well). My estranged brother didn't have a very good home life (we were 3 kids) and he was chucked out at age 17 (I was 12), but for some reason, he doesn't want to know me. It was heartbreaking passing on the info via my other brother about my Mums illness, then death and him not wanting to know. But I feel there must be some closeness for me to have had those feelings.

Angela,am in the same position as you,my only daughter and her children are totally estranged from me,16yrs now ,parcels to grandchildren are returned as all cards.I had a total breakdown when it first happen,I would never have survived except for my HB and Doctor helping me.
Have now learnt to accept that if she no longer wants her parents in her life that is her choice and her right,I have moved on forgiven yes,but not forgotten.
Tried contacting the boys now they are in late teens,but never received any replies.In these sad situations no one wins,children lose loving grandparents......

Hi RedheadedMommy,

A penny dropped when you mentioned in one of your comments to this thread 'flying monkeys' .... so that is what they are called. That is an eye opener. Sorry you have had this too.

I unfortunately have had a lot of experience of estrangement in families. I fell out with my parents when I had my youngest child, and didn't speak to them for a year.
my father developed cancer and died during that year, and I will never forget getting the call from my mother to tell me!
have never forgiven myself for letting a stupid row do this, and it's has taken many years to come to terms with it and to forgive myself enough to move on!
6 years ago my youngest daughter got pregnant while doing her A levels (in difficult circumstances).I was really angry at the time, and didn't speak to her for 2 months (she stayed with a friend) in the end the misery the estrangement cost us both just became too unbearable and we reconciled. she moved home and had our little grandson,they still live with me and he is a joy and a delight in my life! One I would have missed out on if I had dug my heels in!
I guess my answer is think long and hard before shutting the door on a relationship, if never seeing the person again sinks your spirits no matter how angry you are with them, then just try to work things out, obviously this doesn't apply if the relationship is a DV one but if it's just a row causing the rift is it worth the pain you will have?
Looking back at the row with my parents I still think I had a fair point in an abstract sense,but sometimes being happy is better than being right!
Good luck

Notyetagran. I know exactly what you mean - in my case it is my sister. She had lied so much over the years and I finally had enough after our mother died. I haven't spoken to her since the Will was dealt with (I was the Executor). Sadly my son doesn't know my side of things as I haven't discussed them, he has believed everything my sister has said, both about my Mum and me. This has caused a distance between us as he believes his aunt is fantastic and everything she does is wonderful. I could tell him all the nasty things she and my late brother in law did but it won't make them any better and just cause more upset so I haven't. I have never said he couldn't see his Aunt or put any restrictions on his way . All I say is that I am done with it- my choice.

Hi SparklyGrandma (you sound like my mom! Fab name!)

Yes, it's such an eye opener when the penny drops. It's like reading a book. She told me that there would probley be an illness to try and pull you back in if the flying monkey failed, low and behold she did. 3 of them within a few weeks, then it trailed off and she's absolutely fine now.

It's like the councillor had met her. Everything she said she had described her, just like Anya. It was really emotional when the light bulb went on for us.

I do think a proportion of estrangement is carried out by people who are spiteful or have a grudge to settle, or an agenda.

My sister decided at age 45 that my she no longer wanted to 'deal with' our parents who ARE and have been fairly abusive. So she went into an online group, learned all the key words: toxic, co-dependant, flying monkeys..etc...and came out with a plan and advice on what steps to take to estrange herself and her kids from them, so that SHE could 'heal'. I told her I didn't agree with all that, that she could quite easily work on how to deal with their personalities, just like she will expect HER kids to be able to deal with her personality when they get married and have kids....but no.....she started to go the route of telling me I was in some way...enabling them. I don't enable them....if they do something I don't like, I have it out with them there and then. And that's that. I don't do what she's doing, and brood, and overthink and decide that she is fairly perfect and everyone else is toxic to her life.

So 2 boys have lost the opportunity for any meaningful relationship with their grandparents. I find that very hard to bear, for the boys and for my parents..

Their other adult child, my brother...hasn't spoken to them for 25 years. They 'fell out' over something very trivial and he's never bothered to get back in touch with them. The mother of his kids binned them off, again...because they were 'toxic'. Again tho, she has to hope that when she's their age, that her kids or kids partners don't ambivalently and selfishly bin her off...for no real reason.

Estrangement isn't the answer unless the person being avoided is very very seriously awful. It shouldn't just be because: you don't like them (esp if there are kids involved), you've managed to label them as 'toxic' (but remember, there are NO non-toxic people...everyone is a complete pain, to some degree), you feel 'disrespected' by them, you have a grudge that you're trying to settle....etc etc...

The supposed peace of mind for one person, isn't worth the suffering for so many other people involved, imo...

My dad is actually not talking to me at the moment, called me all the names under the sun because he thinks I've not encouraged my daughter to stay in contact with them. I forwarded him an email I sent her only 5 days ago, telling her to make sure she tries to stay in contact with them. He STILL is saying that I've made no effort. I have made regular effort, over 15 very long years. So I'm now being estranged from my dad by my dad, because someone else encouraged my daughter to become estranged from my mum and dad (ex-husband, to settle the score from me leaving him).....while trying to deal with my own estrangement from my daughter (again, due to ex-husband settling a score).. Even tho my dad is estranging me in the cruelest circumstances ever, I'm never going to not be there for him. I understand that, perhaps he cannot comprehend that my ex-husband could be so manipulative.......dunno.....but I am not going to be dumping anyone....not my parents, not my daughter....heck, if the ex-husband wanted to become friends, I'd welcome him....even tho he's caused immense pain to me, and massive financial loss also.

Life is too short FOR estrangements (apart from in very very ultra severe cases)..

jenpax, I am so glad you worked that out with your daughter... Lucky daughter to have such an understanding mum, and lucky mum having a beautiful grandbaby in her life.. Lovely, lovely post..

My stepmother and daughter fit very neatly into your description, Anya. SM hated me mentioning anything that had happened prior to her arrival on the scene - and I mean ANYTHING, from my education, dead mother, holidays I had taken with my father; you name it, it sent her off in a blazing fit of sheer whirling jealousy, complete with screaming and deserting my father for weeks on end, until she was sure I had gone! I lived 2500 miles away, by the way. When my father died unexpectedly, he only had time left to write "I leave everything to my wife, knowing that she will do the right thing". Her ideaof this was to give me a £20 note and tel me to "F* off for ever, I'm giving you nothing".

Many years later, my daughters , having been exposed to their real winner of a father, who had deserted them sans mot 13 years earlier, decided that he (with the money) was a better bet that me (without the money). They tell everyone I am dead and I do not expect to hear from them again in my lifetime.

And no, I am not a jealous, nor toxic person in any way. Just have s* relations.

But what you've said is your opinion. It's your life to live how you want. If you want to see your parents who mentally,verbally and physically abused/abuse you, that's your choice.

You don't get to say what other people should deal with or put up with. Estrangement isn't the answer your YOU but it is for other people.

I think one has to be careful not to become a 'victim' if someone decides they don't want to see you any more. DNA or legal ties with someone related to someone doesn't automatically give one the right to be in that person's life.
Why would I want to have anything to do with my father's widow for example? He married her when I was 22 and had left home and he died only four years later so I hardly knew her. I certainly didn't ever see her as my step mother.
One of my DC feels the same about her father's current wife. If he died tomorrow DD wouldn't make any effort to see her again. My other two would and that's fine also but one can't force oneself upon grown up children from a previous relationship if they don't want it no matter how long you were married to their parent and it's best just left.
Why shouldn't we be free to choose who we associate with? We pick and choose our friends so why not family? If you don't get on with someone why put yourself through 'duty contact'? As long as there's no animosity just stop sending Christmas cards and "forget" to send a change if address. I'm not "jealous" I just hate being dictated to about who I should see and how often and what I apparently "owe" people simply because they have attached themselves to a blood relative of mine.