Continued support and fun aspects too of rebuilding lives after estrangement can't believe 4 years and we still here to offer help, friendship and support.

How very sad Fairydoll I too never met my paternal grandparents. My GM died just before my elder sister was born, and as she had 3 boys and no daughters, she would have loved us. My dad's dad was apparently chased off by my dad, after he attacked dad's mum [his wife,my GM]he chased him down the street with a rifle kept from his war days! How true that is though, I don't know

I too grieved for my GDad, as he was alone, living on Isle of Sheppey, when my mum spotted him in a shop in Southend and said to my dad "that's your dad isn't it?" So they were reconciled, must have been 40yrs later! He died shortly afterwards, got knocked down, so I never got to meet him, as I was living in Africa at the time.

I do 'Healing breathing' in my yoga classes and I always think of my granddad John, as it turned out he was a healer and a member of a spiritualist church. My dad couldn't believe this of his dad, but I wonder if it was the estrangement that led him down this path, being cut off from his 3 sons & never getting to meet his GC. Of course in those days there were no internet, mobiles or anything like that, so if you lost touch with your family, that was it! Funny how my mum spotted him just before he died, after all those years apart!

I save some of this GN posting, mostly mine, but sometimes, like this one of yours Fairydoll[hope you don't mind] showing the sorrow & destruction estrangement brings. It's only saved in my GC memory boxes, so that one day, not only will they get to know how much I loved & missed them, but also their family history on their mums side, that she couldn't tell them. I also have a copy for myself, that I hope my ED gets to read one day and to then fully realise the enormity of what she has done to us; her mum, sister & her little girl, my precious GD [my GS has his dad & all his paternal family, so not as effected as my GD]

Needless to say why I hae not posted for a while, I have been read though and totally understand your post regarding being upset at not seeing as much of your Son as you'd hoped Smileless enough said.

Hope your check-up goes well today Celebgran and they find nothing they can't fix quickly for you.

Love to all the estranged posters on here
Also to those not estranged but come on here to give us some encouraging words of support and sometimes wise words to help us through our dark days, of which there are many!

Chewy Kiku do you remember the trendy yellow packaging and bottles?

And dancing close when young, especially in the summer, to sweaty young men with a mixture of Brut and sweat. Lovely stuff.

celebgran I had 4 grandparents who were alive and me and my siblings all had great love and input into our lives well into young adulthood and more - as did all our cousins on both sides,to our lives. I only lost my last grandmother 10 years ago. I read the eulogy at her funeral.

This modern idea that grandparents aren't 'family' is nonsense I think, the more love a child has, the more a child thrives. I made sure even after divorce that my DS saw his paternal grandma spoke to her on the phone and visited. It would have been cruel not to.

I wonder if anyone is doing research into the impact of grandparents on grandchildren? Proof is needed.

FairydollThats exactly what I was talking about... GC having decisions made for them by their angry parents.
I talked to my son the other day and he thinks my DH and I have too many expectations of my ESS and his wife.
Who doesn't have expectations? Your boss expects certain behaviors, your family, etc. Yes we expected sensitivity and empathy for all the caretaking we did for them and our parents. We expected thankfulness when my DH built them steps for their yard and furniture for their home. We expected to be treated with respect and not rudeness.
Funny thing is that they expect so much but give so little. My ESS hardly saw his grandparents when we moved them to be closer to us. But as soon as spring came he was up at their place on the lake using their home for free. In fact when we sold the home they had left much of their own stuff there like they owned it. Yet my ESS could only manage to see them three or four times a year living 26 miles away. I'm not sure if they told my son this or it's just his perception.
So now no one can have expectations?

Rhinestone Fairydoll

I can see what you mean, I furnished my esDS and DiL flat and continued when they moved into a house, sofabed, wardrobes, double bed, chest of drawers, freezer, bedding, shelving from John Lewis, TV, microwave etc.

I did it because I am his mother, and looking back, my dear MiL did something similar for me.

I don't expect anything but do have expectations of kindness, respect, integrity - because that is how I brought him up.

Sigh.

The devil is in the details though, imo. Yes, I think we can expect "kindness, respect, respect, integrity" - imo, all of us should be able to expect that. But one person may have different ideas of what shows kindness, etc. than another. For example, if Rhinestone's ESS really doesn't enjoy his gps company, he might think it's a kindness just to visit them those four times a year. They might think it's cruel that he doesn't see them more often, but he may think he's kind to visit them even that much. So "expecting" a certain number of visits is probably a bad idea.

Same with "respect" and "integrity." Tu draw on that same example, Iv never heard of respect being associated with number of visits, but perhaps the gps think it is. ESS, however, might not, or he might feel he's making those four visits "out of respect" and gratitude for the use of their property. If he visited them more than he really would like to, would that be a show of integrity? I think not. So again, I can see where one could be setting oneself up for disappointment if one has more than very general expectations. Just my opinion.

Yogagirl lovely see you back ??welcome

No need to explain why younbeen absent?Understood.

Thanks for thinking of me, good news blood tests all fine, bad news myncalprotectinnlevel raised in sample could be indication of bowel disease omg haven't I had enough?
So another referral but she said it could just be because I have had nasty infection so we shall see.

Also now going back on sustained release morphine higher dose
And ditch codeine but take paracetemol regularly as activates morphine apparently, definitely can't go back on naproxen again

Thank goodness seeing back consultant for second opinion on Friday,

Well my little Rosie been groomed and looks a little poppett.

Feel reassure no the c word but still anxious.

Fairydoll and Yoga, how sad about your pgfs!

Fairydoll, is it possible your mum didn't believe your gf was in the military? Maybe she wasn't so much lying as stating her suspicions as fact? That doesn't fill whatever void his absence in you life may have left. But maybe it could ease your mind about your mum a little?

Yoga, I know you're feeling a void regarding your pgf too. But can you see why a rift developed between him and your dad? The man was abusing your dad's mum! No wonder he was co from his sons!

Plus, if the story is correct, your dad defended pgm by going after pgf with a knife. Even if that's exaggerated, chances are, your dad stood up for his mum, as many a son would do. Pgf probably wasn't too thrilled with that either, even though he was in the wrong.Possibly he didn't want to see your dad for a long time either or couldn't face him. Of course, that means not getting to know his gc, as well. But there was a lot of drama to get past.

It's lovely that they reconciled. I'm sorry you still didn't get to know him. But I'm also glad you found out he changed after the co and did some good. That must be nice for you to know.

Good luck, celeb!

Yogagirl.

You poor thing Celeb, as you've said 'haven't you been through enough'; yes you have and more than your fair share IMO. Keeping everything crossed for you that your appointment on Friday goes well. Good news about little Rosie.

You mean they used to make it as soap as well eddieI had no idea and to think I've only just found out now they're not making it anymore[anger]. we have the same taste in shoes AND men's aftershave. Just told Mr. S. about the soap but I don't think he was too bothered; he likes Farenheit but I think he wears it because I like it sooo much and of course I'm the one who buys it for him.

Some interesting points Starlady but I think it's rather disingenuous to only be able to visit GP's who live jut 26 miles away only 3 or 4 times a year when he was quite happy to make regular trips to their property; looks more like a sense of entitlement to me.

Seems to me that some AC have far more expectations than they're entitled too and we're not permitted to have any at all.

Feel free to save my post Yogagirl Hope its helpful at some future point.

People don't listen because it's all been said before, ad nauseum. All rehashed so-called different perspectives.

Many ladies have been posting on here for years and have done enough self-reflection, introspection, naval gazing, pleading and begging to last a lifetime.
They come together to SUPPORT each other, and what's the harm in that?
Often (not always) the so-called advice is veiled criticism.
I have seen posters in pain having to justify their situation, explain how the estrangemenit occurred and the agony they've been through in order to attempt to reconcile with loved ones.

I have seen ladies on this thread actually blamed for their estrangement, simply because they have rejected 'advice.' from posters who have absolutely no idea what estrangement feels like.

There is no 'one size fits all' where estrangement is concerned. There are a myriad of reasons and a myriad of personalities involved.

I remember, a few months ago, a poster who was clearly estranged at her own behest submitted really nasty, attacking posts under the guise of advice. After having her knuckles rapped by GNHQ, she changed her name and returned yet again to disrupt the thread. Is it any surprise then, that regulars on here have become super-sensitive to advice? I think if they wanted it they would Ask A Gran.

This is not a thread asking for advice it is, as the title suggests, a SUP

Sent by from my iPad

Fairydoll inhavemsave thismpost as I justmfelt it was so excellent!
Thank you

It so totally got all the frustration self blaming, and souls searching I have undergone last 8 years,

I hope to recover my health but knowing my ed doesn't give a damn has been the worst feeling of all to come terms with,

Yes why hell shouldn't we expect certain respect and stsndsrd of behaviour rhinestone ?
Someone once said to me act like a doormat and people will tread on you so very true,

All this begging and pleading and treading on Eggshells it's nonsense
If the girl I gave birth to is unable to appreciate all I did for her for 28 years then I really am focussing on those that do care finally.

Thanks smilless ??things will get better I hope and pray?
My lovely gp said youmwill be here for me to annoy you for lot longer bless her!

I am so sorry for you ladies you have lost contact with your own children - I really don`t think I could cope with that. The thing that really upsets me about losing contact with grandchildren though is that they have had no part in that decision - and as they get older their wishes are being ignored.
At our recent family wedding, my son (who is in a miserable marriage) was surrounded by people who care about him and who are looking out for him. One cousin was able to give him some very useful practical help. Basically, they are on his side.

All of this was done because they have known him all his life and they are his family. Surely his own children deserve to have the same sort of support as they go through life? It isn`t just grandparents who are being cut off - it is whole families

Thank you Celebgran, Smileless & Fairydoll

That's the real tragedy isn't it eddie. Mr. S. has a large family and our GC are being denied great aunts and uncles, aunts and uncles, cousins, second cousins, 2 GGM's; the list goes on and on.

Mr. S. and I aren't justfor ourselves, we're sad for our mothers. My m.i.l. has a ton of GC and GGC but still misses our ES and his children. My poor mum now only has one GS and no GGC at all.

We don't just have our own pain to deal with, we have the pain of our husbands, our other child(ren) who even if they retain contact, have seen their family torn apart and the distress of their parents. I'm not saying our ES doesn't have his own pain to contend with but DS says on the rare occasions they have talked about it, because his brother never wants too, all he sees is his.

So yes, we come together on this thread; sometimes to vent our anger, sometimes to share our pain and as recent posts about perfume and aftershave testify too, sometimes just to have a chat and raise a.

Yogagirl Did you feel any anger at not being able to have a relationship with your gp's? I have heard of people turning to their faith or becoming more active in it once they had something devastating happen to them.
CelebgranI have everything crossed for you... my eyes, legs and arms... for a good report.
Smileless I hadn't thought of what you said about other family being estranged because of our estrangement. But yes, my daughter was not invited to a birthday party because my stepdaughter told her father she would be in town for a memorial but couldn't see him. My DD was not invited because she would tell us that she saw my stepdaughter when my stepdaughter said she didn't have time for family. But right there on Instagram was a picture of her with her mom, partner, and my ESS and DIL.
So when my DD questioned my DIL about why she wasn't invited, EDIL said she didn't want us just showing up at the party.
So yes one estrangement builds on others. My DD and her children have no other children at family get togethers anymore.

Sparkly The world has expectations of how we should live and follow the laws. My ESS was a taker and gave little. His GP gave him two cars (used) and $25,000 in their lifetime that I know about. Because my DH is an only child they just had him and his sister as grandchildren. They spent vacations from school at their home on the lake and called them often as I recall. But when they moved down he just couldn't find th time to visit them. It's not like they weren't close. when my MIL was dying my ESS came to see her. She was lying in bed talking and weak. No tubes or oxygen were used. He said he couldn't take it and never came back to see her. She died three weeks later. Now mind you in those three weeks we still watched his son and took care of my mother and my DD's children. Yet because HE couldn't handle his grandmother lying in bed he never came back. It was about him not his DGM.
We had to handle it all. I had to handle the funeral arrangements. The day his grandfather died I called him but he had to leave for work. We never saw him until four days later at the funeral. ( and then had to pay for the babysitter as he pleaded poverty only to see his post the following week that he was at a weekend get away with his wife)
So we all have expectations.. and so do our EC. But a conversation to clear up the expectations would be nice instead of our children being cowardly and running away in silence.
On another note I used to be a Shalimar girl. But we couldn't wear perfumes in the classroom as many children had allergies so I got away from it. If I wear it now it only attracts bees not boys.

Smileless it isn't sooo sad and impossible to believe that we have all lost our beloved children and grandkids when it could have been sorted
I know I am like a cracked record but funeral we went to last week of old friend made me so very sad to realise our beloved daughter will no know or care when we shuffle off this mortal coil

Whenever you see these articles asking celebritities saddled moment can guarantee it will be when their mum or dad died.

That's what's makes me feel sno vulnerable and abnormal I guess,

Oh rhinestone love the ? bees attraction!

Yes it's sense of entitlement I guess myned felt she was entitled to her dad's pension towards her home, and 4 years of my earnings in rubbish retail job to keep her at uni, then private appt when cancer scare, then fertility expert etc etc but oops don't need you any more mum you are t perfect enough,

Not a good way to behave by anyone's standards is it?

On brighter note little Rosie water test clear, and my beloved pressure very good at check today so won't prevent me having treatment ?

Thanks rhinestone still keep it all crossed for my big appt tomorrow 10am.

Phew been stressful day somehow,

Not that impressed with smart car we been left with as courtesy car, but hey it's got heated seats like ours so back relief ?

Thought I would post with that Dr. Coleman wrote about whether to continue to try or not .

Hers is the amends letter one with suggestions as what to say.

"The thing that really upsets me about losing contact with grandchildren though is that they have had no part in that decision - and as they get older their wishes are being ignored."

But aren't parents supposed to make many of the decisions about their children? Yes, children's wishes should be considered, but if the parents really feel it's best for them not to spend time with someone, isn't it their right to keep them from that person? Kids don't even have a say in custody cases till a certain age, am I right?

Once they're adolescents, I can see there having more of a say. But once they're teens, they can often seek out their GPs on their own if they're so inclined. Of course, it may cause trouble with the parents in some households. But ultimately, until the kids are of legal age, parents have a right to make these choices. If the kids miss the GPs or just the fact of having GPs, they might resent it, and that's sad. But parents still have the authority.

"It isn`t just grandparents who are being cut off - it is whole families."

Well, yes, sadly. But perhaps the other relatives and the young estranged family can make separate arrangements to get together. If they depend on the GPs to pull everyone together, then no. Or it they only see each other at large family events where the GPs are present, then maybe not. But if they and the young parents are willing to get together without the GPs being involved, then they could keep up their connection. Doing this might create more drama and complications though if the GPs found out.

But yes, I can see where an estrangement can impact other family relationships and cause unexpected strains and estrangement, as in Rhinestone's family...

"But yes, my daughter was not invited to a birthday party because my stepdaughter told her father she would be in town for a memorial but couldn't see him. My DD was not invited because she would tell us that she saw my stepdaughter when my stepdaughter said she didn't have time for family.... So when my DD questioned my DIL about why she wasn't invited, EDIL said she didn't want us just showing up at the party.

So yes one estrangement builds on others..."

Technophope alterhow can I make Rhinestone's Coleman reports big enough to read. I'm on a lap top so can't do that finger thingy where you can stretch something out to make it bigger. Oh dear, not sure this post makes much sense either.

Ctrl +{plus key}(press at the same time and then press + again and again, holding down ctrl)

Same as pressing ctrl p to print.