Continued support and fun aspects too of rebuilding lives after estrangement can't believe 4 years and we still here to offer help, friendship and support.TWO

Smiless so sorry ohone changed your name we had giggle

Smokeless lol that's made my day! In fact it could stick.

Sorry for your pain,Celeb. Let's hope this operation will solve this.

Good wishes to you all.

NS

I too am going through my wardrobe, there are things in bags that I have not worn, because I left it too late to take items back to the shop and they are either too tight or the colour brings me down. I need different colours now I am not a reddish hair colour, but keep getting things that used to suit me. I am comforting myself that it isn't money wasted, I am helping charities and trying to get everything in my wardrobe that I enjoy wearing. Shoes are my worst vice, I just cannot walk in the heels I have in boxes, but to part with any more than I have would depress me, so wait a bit longer for them to be turfed out.
Yes it would be nice to meet up when you are fully recovered Celeb, take no notice of Bugsy, she soon fled the forum when we realised her intention was to hurt.x
Do you know the only emotion I haven't felt is anger, I felt hurt, betrayed, confused and extremely depressed, very alone but I wish I could get mad. X

Lucky, I feel just the same way with emotions.
I felt so hurt.
My friend couldn't understand why I wasn't angry.

I try to be positive, but I miss the chats I had with my daughter...

You are not alone.

Peace be with you.
NS

Luckylegs and Northernsoul funny thing, anger is not what I feel either. The emotions I feel about estrangement from my estDS DiL and DGC is sadness, hopelessness and loss.

I am glad that Bugssomething person has gone, there is no need to come into this thread and try to hurt us all....

Anyway, chin up, onto another week...

My fault ladies. I started it worrying about my future DIL. The wedding is next week and they have asked me to go tomorrow and help with the preparations, so fingers crossed. It will be the longest I have stayed and At a time of stress so hopefully we will all get on and know each other a little better by Saturday. Thank you all for your thoughtful responses to me.

Eglantine how lovely for you to be involved in the wedding preparations.

Do enjoy the experience.

No worries about other people who post on here.
All are entitled to an opinion, even if they don't know all the facts...

There's nothing like a shared experience,have to say this estrangement is one I'd have preferred to skip!

Have a wonderful time and do let us know how it went.

NS

Eglantine Hope you enjoy the wedding and all the prep before-hand, let's hope you get on well with new d.i.l and don't actually need to implement any of my/our advise on here. I think owing to what's happened to all of us on here, we all naturally feel a need to tread carefully. Having said all I have, I get on really well with my other s.i.l, he is very kind, thoughtful, clever & funny and I feel I can say that I will not have a problem with him, or should I say, he with me.

Luckylegs Northernsoul & Sparkly

I did have a week or two where I felt angry at my estD for what she has done to our family, for what she has done to her little girl, mum & sister, the 3 females in her life that she should have always been there for, loving, caring and protecting from other. Instead she decided to destroy us all and yes my over-riding emotion has always been deep sorrow & sadness, grieving! I think when I felt anger, I thought, after almost 5yrs that I should feel this emotion, so I did, but the sorrow soon overtook again

Celeb, I'm another one who hopes your operation will cure your pain.

Eglantine, how wonderful that you were invited to help with the wedding preps. As long as you remember that, even if you have a suggestion or two, all final decisions are up to the bride and groom. It will be nice if they ask your opinion on a few things, but please be prepared to accept it gracefully if they don't follow it. In fact, hopefully, you're ready to accept it if they don't seek your opinion at all. They may already know exactly how they want things. Just enjoy!

Ladies, it's not so strange, imo, that some of you haven't experienced much anger. Idk, but Iv read that not everyone goes thru all the stages of grief. Luckylegs, in your case, I think it might be partly because you know you're the one who co the relationship. But you still could be mad at ed for pushing you to that point, and yet you're not, so that might not be it. I just hope all of you are able to move on eventually.

Starlady, I was out of her life for a very long time before I said enough. Don't know whether I have moved on, just made a different life to the one I had. In my heart I can never understand what has happened, that pain is within. If I hurt anyone and I cannot remember doing so,I would have to put it right, How do you hurt your own mother? It's not natural. To just draw a line under the most important relationship isn't really possible. If you just google, adult children abandoning parents, you see we are far from alone, it is a world wide problem now. We just have to live with it and make the best life possible whilst we can.
I have been so grateful to this Forum, for showing me support, because not one person I know had had this happen and for a very long time I thought I was alone in this.

Lucky, I was in a very dark place when I found this forum.
I couldn't tell anyone as I was so distraught..very gradually I was able to lift my head up.

The phrase 'moving on' evokes irritation in me!
It suggests we can leave the past behind which is impossible...we may grow and learn from the past.
Like you, I live a different life than anticipated.
So want to include our daughter and her family in our life and she would have been horrified if I had told her this would the situation.

Don't often post, but had a spate lately!
Feel it's important to keep this thread open for those like me who felt I was alone.

Peace be with you..it looks like a beautiful day.

NS

I am more angry now than two years ago. Now I realize how disgusting my ESS and his wife really are . At first I thought they just needed a year. Well it will be three years in February and the longer it goes on the more angry and disgusted I am with them. And why is my DH not fighting for his grandkids? We do have options . Thursday there is a group that meets once a month. I want us to go but he's unsure. At least we could hear what others have done. Then we have the option of asking for grandparent visitation. I guess I'm just not a quitter until all options have been explored. He resigns himself to everything.

The article I had previously posted that was blurry( and I can't make it clearer) suggests sending cards and balloons on GC Birthday to their school. I'm not sure I agree with that. It also suggests we see them in anything that's public. So if your GC has a soccer game or school function etc. show up. They also suggest writing a letter or many letters and giving it to a lawyer with the suggestion that when the child is eighteen they open it with the lawyer and the parents are not allowed to be in the room.

Showing up at a public event might antagonize the parents further. But if one is fully co and there is no hope of reconciliation, I suppose there's nothing to lose.

Idk about sending stuff to the school. One might get to do it once. But after that, the parents might ask the school not to give the child any gifts one sent there. Idk if parents can do that, it's just a thought. Also, depending on the child's age, it might either delight or embarrass them.

Saving letters to give a gc at 18 sounds good. In fact, I think some people here do that, at least with cards. But at 18, they could, perhaps, come over and read them on their own. No reason for a lawyer that I can see. Unless one is writing negative things about the parents, why would there be a need to be so formal and go to the expense of hiring an attorney?

But those are just some thoughts.

Eac and ecil do need to realize that they can't control everything between their kids and the gps everywhere or forever!

I do sometimes worry about what I would say to the grandchildren if we do get to have a relationship with them in the future. If DS goes ahead with separating from DIL there is a chance this will happen in the not too distant future for us. I strongly suspect that DIL has told the children that they don`t see us because we don`t want to see them. How could I tell them that isn`t true without saying negative things about their mother? I would never do that - much as I am tempted too! (Perhaps when they are adults I would tell them the real truth!)

Drinking my breakfast tea at my DILs house! I'm an ex primary school teacher and just want to say that the school could not pass on anything that was sent. They would return it if possible or destroy it without the child knowing. They would be bound by law to inform the parents and to follow the parents wishes. If an event is open like a school fete, or often Sports Day, then GPs could come to see their grandchildren. But unless they just stay in the background it always ends badly in my experience. It may be different in America. I think the article came from there.
I'm sorry to sound so negative but I thought I ought to say.

Eglantine I am not all surprised we wouldn't dream of embarrassing the school

Sadly we accidentally came across primary school our g daughter goes to and saw s i law waiting outside we drove straight past, it was v distressing though.

The school tweets regularly and we have seen pictures of xxxxxx but that too is distressing

I think it's ridiculous advice,

Yes. I agree and can't understand why this group would print suggestions like that. My DH will not go to the meeting this week from alienated grandparents. I can't decide if I should go without him. Why am I doing all I can and he is running away ?
I was with my friend yesterday and she said if she were young and found out her grandparents were alive she would think THEY didn't want to see her. I never thought of that but I have asked myself what did my ESS tell his boys? Did he say we moved? Died? Or didn't want to see them?

StarladyI think they were talking about using a lawyer for a trust and putting a letter in with it.
We could send them letters once they no longer live at home . I mentioned to my DH that he wrote a letter at least once a year .

Afternoon ladiesit's good to see so many posts on the thread and to see you back on NorthernSoul.

It isn't your fault Eglantine that we had an ill informed poster, we get them from time to time and between us we always manage to silence them in the end. Advice and opinions are always welcomed but not when they become personal attacks.

Oh yes Celeb the ring; well that's settled it then, we'll have to meet again sooner rather than later so I can see it.

It would be wonderful ladies if we could arrange to meet up. Because we're all experiencing this terrible event in our lives it gives us I think, a unique bond. It was certainly there when Celeb and I met and I think it was the same for Mr. S. and
Mr. C.

is my overriding emotion and has been for a long time. I'mbecause he's taken away our GC for no other reason than sheer spite. As you know, Mr. S. has a friend whose ES hasn't spoken to him for several years, stopped him from seeing his GC for about 18 months but now the GC go their GP's house for the day, for sleepovers and days out so it isn't necessary to come between your children and their GP's simply because you don't want a relationship with your parents.

We wouldn't go to a public school event in the hope of seeing our GC. Seeing them and not being able to even speak to them is awful; it's why we moved away.

I think that embracing what we have in our lives and doing all that we can to rebuild them is moving on and perhaps when people say we 'should let go and move on' that's what they mean.

Maybe that's what your DH is doing Rhinestone, not running away but trying to come to terms with what's happened. I think it's especially difficult for the dads in this situation as men are not as comfortable as we are about talking about things of a personal nature. No longer hoping for any kind of a reconciliation so not pursuing any possibilities may look to some as giving up, I think our DS thinks that of us particularly me, but for me it's our way of letting go, ad far as we can, and trying to accept the unacceptable.

It's a beautiful day, not a cloud in the sky and the sea looks fabulous.

Good to read your post,Eglantine.
Agree about schools in this country would not pass anything on.And would need to tell the parent or guardian.It becomes a child protection issue.

Smileless,do agree about dads..my husband keeps a lot to himself ( he tends to go into his cave) because he can't fix it and he is really hurt too.

Would love to meet up...

Good evening and good afternoon to our American friends.

NS

The grandchikldren will believe whatever the parents tell them. The main thing is they are bought up in a happy environment, who knows one day they might question what sort of people we are, Shame they miss out on loving grandparents, but they know no difference, what they don't need is conflict, that's why I butted out, just send cards.

I completely agree, Luckylegs9 all that matters is: "The grandchikldren will believe whatever the parents tell them. The main thing is they are bought up in a happy environment"