Support for Grans cut-out of AC&GC lives

Thank you suebeck and luckylegs, for the two above posts. I'm so sorry for the the truly awful picture you paint sue, even the police being called because you dared to wave to your grandchildren. I'm afraid that starlady has not really been able to understand the situation as she has not been through this. But the reason that the phone call is not ended is simple, and luckylegs on the other hand has understood immediately 'you can't do right for doing wrong'. So many times before, going back since the twins were born, we have been ostracized, despite the amount of help and support we had been giving. Abusive phone calls would ensue, we would end them, eventually we would seek a solution, go to the house, and listen to all the things we had done wrong, including having the temerity to end the calls before they had finished berating us, and then we 'eat humble pie' after which things would be okay again till the next time. My husband has clearly stated he will eat no more humble pie (which I have mentioned in earlier posts) and so on this occasion he answered every allegation with truth! This is how he decided to deal with it this time. I am not sure how this is difficult to understand starlady, you say you have friends who are estranged and you regularly read this thread where almost without exception, the lovely ladies on here have suffered similar abusive phone calls! I don't need to explain to any of them why or how decisions were made, because they've experienced it and know that whatever you do, you can't do right for doing wrong. I hope that clarifies things for you!

I'm addition starlady, I also would like to know how our repeated requests over the last year, and last week, could possibly be interpreted as a lack of interest, but then I didn't say my daughter is rational, in fact I have often said she has clearly identifiable elements of her auntie's mental condition, though obviously not as severe, or she would have needed treatment. None of us, my family, or other posters on here can understand how she can hate an innocent five year old, but that's what she said! I am simply reporting, not analysing, though if I were to analyse, I would say, her jealousy of her brother and his child is what prompts these feelings in my daughter. And no, he is not favoured by us, nor is his child, we love them all, and always have done.

As for my remarks about the twins, my daughter's nearly four year old twins, one boy and one girl, our daughter told us that xxxxx, (the little boy,) said 'Is grandad dead?' I would have thought you were able to work out that a child who regularly saw, and was cared for, and adored by his grandad, now deprived of that contact, has asked his mother if grandad is dead. In other words, xxxxx is missing his beloved grandad (and believe me, those twins loved me, but adored their grandad) and this is not only cruel to us, but horrendously cruel to both those little children who loved us so much.

I hope that clarifies things for you starlady.

Thank you yogagirl, smileless, luckylegs, celeb, annsixty, molly, and drunk for all your very supportive posts, I do appreciate the support.

Celeb, glad to hear you are persevering with medication, it helps a lot, but as I said, it takes time to kick in properly.

celeb you ask if I lost the motivation for going out when I was depressed. Yes, I did, when I first had depression 15 or 16 years ago, I could hardly find the energy to get out of bed! I lost interest in everything, couldn't read, watch television, eat, go out, socialise at all, or even get up and dressed. I was off work for several weeks, and I spent a of of time sleeping, but eventually, about 3 to 4 weeks into treatment, I began to feel better and take an interest in things again. After about 6 weeks, my husband insisted we go on holiday, I didn't want to go, but he booked a week in Malta, and I had to get ready and go. I'm fact it turned out well, did me good, and I enjoyed it. So celeb, don't expect to feel much better too soon, the medicine works gradually, but it does work. Recently when I had to increase the medication the symptoms were a bit different, I started waking up in the early hours rather than sleeping more, and I was very weepy (because of our daughter troubles) and again it took about 2 weeks to feel better, but with all this again as soon as we're back from holiday, I'm already feeling a bit low, but not as badly as before. Please persevere, it should help, if not, go back to doctor. And yes, feeling demotivated is part of the illness.

Sorry ladies, I've nearly written a book!

Suebeck Thank you very much for your post I remember your story from years back, I hope you are doing ok. I would like to keep your post for my 'Diary', with your permission of course. I'm keeping this Diary for my GC [&estD] to tell the story of why I & the rest of our family, are cut out of their lives, when we all love them so.
Your post explains things very well.

I hope you get your GC & estD back soon Suebeck I know you've waited a long time

Sorry can't read more, as have a little visitor back later or prob tomorrow morning. for all xx

Thank you. I give you my permission if it helps in any way. Hugs sue

I just wanted to add that in my case anti depressants are not the answer. We have to face up to this sad state of affairs. I meditate and keep physically active out in the fresh air every day. Each to their own of course.

Thanks maddyone it's so very kind of you to be so helpful when you have enough stress. People who don't understand depresssion are not in position to comment. I haven't needed help for 16 years but I know when I need it,

Thanks so much again I. Will perservere with meds have dr appt on 18th and another with my lovley gp after Xmas one who visited me after my operation but is like gold dust get appt with. I have tolerated nearly week now but my poor husband was so worried about side affects as have enough cope with ref pain relief.

I was so proud of not needing antidepressant for 9 years estrangement but losing our Rosie and my major op as you say smilless had dreadful year,

Thank god for lovely husband and son,

Maddyone please stay strong and I hope and pray your daughter sees sense.

It's wonderful you were able enjoy holiday I am trying push myself to carry on but we did cancel lunch out today.
Doesn't help we have upset daughters godmother she doesn't seem knownor care how ill I am feeling.
As I said difficult to understand unless you have suffered clinical depression.

It was lovely to hear from you again suebeck and I was moved by your post and also saddened that your estrangement goes on.

Depression is a terrible thing to go through Celeb and it's physical and mental effects have been brilliantly summed up by maddy. I haven't gone out to work for almost 6 years, so when our estrangement began I had no reason nor incentive to get up in the morning so there were many mornings when I didn't. All I wanted to do was sleep, so that's what I did.

The fact that you haven't needed help for 16 years despite the fact that your estrangement has been on going for more than half that time for me, shows what a strong and remarkable lady you are. Needing some help now, doesn't detract from your strength and courage. Neither does the fact that you cancelled your lunch date today.

As I said in an earlier post, you've been through major surgery from which you are still recovering from and on top of that have lost your dear little Rosie. Try and take it easy, it's good to push yourself but don't push too hard.

I'm sorry maddy that the peace and relaxation you found on holiday seems to be evaporating since your return. As Luckylegs said, we can't do right for doing wrong which is why some of us take the decision to walk away. It doesn't mean we've stopped loving our estranged children, we've just got to the point where enough is enough and we're no longer prepared to be their punch bag and be held responsible for the mistakes that they've made.

It's late so I'm off to bed and I hope that you all have a good night's sleep and that theshines for you all tomorrow.

Smileless ?Thanks dear friend I am feeling like just want sleep yet had couple sleep less nights.

Today was awful thanks to xxx godmother despite how ill I feel we have upset her over trivia and took her some pink roses she was rather rude and it shocked us both.
The fact I feel so,ill she just ignored she's known me 46 years and yet showed no compassion she resents losing her favourite godchild but I am no responsible for that 10 times worse for us.
Oh well we get these shocks meant to say can understand smileless how u didn't feel motivated to get up I am same at moment.
Tomorrow having telephone assessment from health in mind want take all help I can.

Thanks ladies for all kind support xx

I have battled with mild depression so I fully understand what it's like but I have come through on my own . There are days when I feel awful with it, not only with estrangement but the deaths of my parents, brother and boyfriend at this time. I have no other close family but good friends.

I just want to wish you all a Happy Christmas, under the circumstances it is very difficult. Best wishes . Have faith that this situation won't be forever.

Suebeck Morning, just re-read your excellent post, thanks again. Your right about the abuser [my s.i.l] making their victim [my D] believe they are mad, my s.i.l even put my DD in a mental hospital after they had the big argument that ended in my & the rest of her birth family's estrangement. She was assessed to having just the baby blue, he refused to have her released into his care [he had had her sectioned] but of course I didn't & came back from holiday to help her, whilst she stayed with me. I & my ND know he planned all this to happen when we were away, so that we couldn't help her.

I think of my darling little GD at this time, what must she have gone through, her mummy suddenly gone! My GD regressed and started wetting herself, so that shows her upset

10yrs for you Suebeck So very sorry

Just read your last posts Suebeck so very sorry to hear about your parents passing & your brother & boyfriend, you have really been put through it, haven't you }}}Hugs{{{ & I wish you a very 'Happy Xmas' & a much happier New Year. You never know, maybe 2018 will be the year you will be reunited with your DD &DGDs. I hope so for you, you deserve some happiness after all these years of grieving. God Bless xxx

Maddy just reading your long post now & don't worry we all do, from time to time As for the police, they were called on me too, I was accused of trying to kidnap my GD, when I had gone to her play school, just to say hello, I love you to my D & GS too. My once beloved D just went straight back into the school, so my GC didn't even see me! This was the day after Mother's Day, the first one of the estrangement

As for Starlady She is on another thread on here, urging a D.i.l to cut out her m.i.l & all her husbands birth family She will then come on 'our' thread, sympathising with us!!

Suebeck what a terrible time you've had; my condolences for the loss of your parents, brother and boyfriend. It's good to know that you have good friends and don't forget, you have friends here too.

I hope you don't mind my suggesting this Celeb but maybe a little distance from your ED's Godmother would be a good idea, at least for the time being. Perhaps 'phone calls and messages would be better for a while rather than meeting up. I know you've been good friends for a long time, that she's always been close to your ED, but it's a real shame that she can't see how terribly difficult this estrangement is for you and Mr. C. With all you've been through this year, what you need is comfort and support and when you're depressed you need to try and reduce stress.

Maddy Just finished reading your book Needless to say all the Grandmothers on here understand you completely, having all been there ourselves, so we have no need to ask endless questions, we know! Whereas Starlady doesn't understand at all, not being estranged herself, hence all the irritating questioned all the time, and her friends are actually from another forum!

Celebgran Smileless luckylegs Maddy Suebeck & all estranged Grandmothers on here, Rhinestone & sparklygran }}}Hugs{{{ &

I too would sleep a lot in the first year of this awful estrangement, still I curl up on the settee with a blanky to try and blot out the pain of this last 5 long years

I seem to be in a permanent state of flux, with butterflies in my stomach as I'm so excited that DS will be with us here for Christmas. With another week and 6 days to go, goodness knows what state I'll be in when he eventually arrives.

So that hug was well timed Yogagirl; thank you. I can hardly believe that you and Celeb have been my GN friends for 5 years; has it really been that long since I hugged my ES? Yes, longer in fact by a few months.

I hope you enjoyed you time with your little visitor yesterday, I bet you did. It made meto think of you curled up with a blanky, even though you do so for the saddest of reasons.

for you and my thanks for being my friend and always being there with your kindness and support.

Thanks yogagirl for your comments. The blogs on npd are very helpful and illustrate how this type enjoy family conflict and more. It is very easy to brainwash someone against their family, just look at the result leading to stockholm syndrome. The victim begins to defend the abuser, anything to stop interfering family (as they see it) trying to help them. It's fascinating. Take care. Even in extreme cases calling the Police .

Thanks for clarifying, Maddy.

When I said I don't get how d could translate requests for visits into the idea that you favor ds' family, I was sympathizing with you. I thought you would get that. I guess not, but hope you do now.

While I'm not estranged, I have, in my time, been in arguments with people where I felt I had to end the conversation. Sometimes have even just hung up. Yes, I then hear later how rude that was, but I just reiterate that I won't be abused. If someone wants to tell me their complaints, fine, but don't speak to me abusively. I have even had this happen a few times with my dd, over the years, so I know it's harder when the person is your child. But won't be cursed at or whatever.

Now if it were just that they tried to tell you the things that were bothering them and you refused to listen, then I would understand their being angry (NOT saying that's what happened, just saying IF if did). But I get the impression that they were rude and insulting during those phone calls. I don't blame you and dh for ending them, and I still think you should have stuck to your guns on that. I can see apologizing for things you two have said or done to hurt them (IF any), but not for refusing to accept abuse, yourselves.

I do see the value, though, in dh's countering their arguments. I hope they truly listened and that it had a positive effect. No doubt, it felt good for him to say it. I'm sorry it's even like that, of course.

I'm like you Starlady. If I have a complaint I deliver it as politely as I can; I do not verbally abuse others and will not be verbally abused myself.

Mr. S. has in the past been on the receiving end of abusive conversations with our ES, trying to put across his point of view but to no avail. He has more patience than I do in that type pf situation and unlike me is highly unlikely to retaliate. Not that I'd be abusive but have no problem in saying what I think in the strongest way possible.

If any of these estranged AC believe they have good reasons for doing what they have done, they should be able to articulate those reasons without resorting to abuse. IMO the old saying that the best form of defense is attack, is so true in these cases. If they really believed they are justified, why do so many never actually tell their parents what their issues are, and why do those that do seem incapable of doing so without being so bloody rude?

True narcissists enjoy conflict , it doesn't matter what the argument is about. Best to keep your dignity as I did.

"True narcissists enjoy conflict" yes I agree suebeck but the conflict they enjoy is that which takes place between other people, conflict that they've manufactured and then can sit back and enjoy. Especially if the result is getting someone they don't want around cut out.

What they don't like is conflict that involves them directly. That's why someone who may be influential to someone they wish to control is cut out and doubly so if they believe that person will stand up to them.

I read on a narcissist site a couple of years ago that when dealing with them, the only way to win the game is to stop playing. so that's what we did by walking away emotionally and physically, by moving.

Not an out and out victory as I very much doubt we'll ever see our ES or GC, but a victory of sorts because we have peace and some joy back in our lives.