Kept from grands I need advice

Let's say it was YOUR situation and that it wasn't your MIL but a random older lady and you were the young parents.

1. Would you want this person telling you she WILL be giving you advice because she's older than you and learned from experience?

2. Would you want this person showing up at your house randomly because she hasn't seen you in a While?

3. Would you want this person insisting on having HER time with your children one on one?

4. Would you want this person sending you random messages in the mail?

You are not the parent. You have no rights to those children. Let's also talk about comparing other grandparents' experiences. How many times did your children say they wanted something, and you said no, and they said "Well, Suzie's parents let HER have/do/whatever." What was your response then? Why do you feel it should be different for you as an adult?

Twice a week is a lot for seeing your grands. My stepdaughter rarely sees her paternal grandparents because we are in Canada and they are in the UK. But of course she knows who they are and we never get complaints that we "don't see them enough". I agree with the PPs that you need to find something else to occupy your time. If you define your entire existence by being a grandparent that's not healthy for you or your grandchildren, even if you did get to see them frequently.

For the record, I am a DIL and my MIL and SFIL are lovely. FIL is a different story but he is CO and that was Hubby's choice; I certainly did not "brainwash" him into that decision and he would be the first to tell you that.

Immagamma you have told us of several things you did which you knew your son and Dil did not like.
So you have to recognise that those are things you must apologise for and must resolve not to do in future.

Going at the situation from your perspective hasn't worked. Indeed, it has gone drastically wrong.
So you have to look at their perspective and change your attitudes and behaviours.

If you can't or won't do that, then the situation will remain as it is and you will remain estranged.

Believe me minesaprosecco, I have met people equally incapable of self analysis and equally convinced that they are always right, but they did have personality disorders and in one case were not the sharpest knife in the box.

You've met my mum then Monica?

Immagamma it is very easy to walk into a situation like this unknowingly. Yes, things have changed since ‘our’ day and there is not the free access to grandchildren that existed in many families in earlier days.

Many (not all) families are more insular. DiLs more assertive. While you have obviously fallen foul of this new style of parenting, you are not the only one.

Now, having read all the posts perhaps you could take time to reflect on how things have come to this situation.

I can’t advise how, or even if, this sad situation can be changed, but I do hope so for your sake.

Nice post Benji55

Good post and advise Smileless as always

Gamma this is your thread and I know a lot of the posts on here are unkind and hard to hear, but the ones you want to hear are those from fellow estranged GM on here like Smileless & myself, that understand your pain.

What happens is, the more they push you away, the more you push to see them, resulting in a deadlock. Family & friends said the same to me, about staying away from them, but when they've been a big part of your life, all of their lives, you love them with all of your heart & soul, and are bewildered as to what you have done wrong, it's hard to follow the advise. On one hand, yes it is best to stay away, but the longer you are not part of their lives, the easier it is for them to keep it that way, very cruel, very unkind, very heartless!

For you Gamma

By the way posters, the OP story is at the top of each page, so it's not necessary to repost it, just reply & put your comments & hopefully advise in.

Good post MissAdventure

The vast majority of the posts on here are not unkind, just honest and hard to read for the OP. Support and understanding from others CO is good, for her to know she is not alone in this situation, but other perspectives are very valid too. Gamma I hope that the many pieces of advice and understanding are helpful to you

Craicon what a very unkind, unhelpful, insulting post!

Bluegal lovely post & good advise. Varian too.

Nurse It's not a random person, It's the mother of her son, the grandmother of her grandchildren! How can you liken them the same

. Your mother gives unwanted advice to you and your wife about how you're raising your child. She arrives unannounced, and when this is pointed out as being unwanted, she rings and tries to arrange visits but you are always busy.

You've asked her to pray for you and your family in the past and she's now sending Bible passages as a means of communication. There are a lot of posters assuming that these have been sent to ram the OP's religious beliefs down their throats, and/or that the posts sent are in condemnation when they could just as well have been about love, relationships and family.

You ask her to stay away for 2 years, which she does but once that period of estrangement is over you give her nothing; no explanation for that 2 year period, no contact with you (her son), no contact with her GC and no indication as to when, or indeed if, things are going to change.

Well IMO the behaviour being exhibited by her son leaves a lot to be desired. I've had far worse to contend with from my own mother and m.i.l. and it would never have occurred to me to even think about cutting my mother out or encourage or support my husband in cutting out his mother.

Immagmma isn't just a m.i.l. to her d.i.l., she's a GM to her GC and above all, a mother to her son.

Like each and everyone of those who has posted on this thread, I can see why problems have arisen Immagamma but whatme is the overwhelming number of responses that put all of the blame on to you.

I can see why there have been and are problems but nothing that justifies you being cut out of your son's and GC's lives. There's nothing in any of your posts that suggests you've been anything other than a loving mother who has done her best in raising her son.

Only a parent who has a history of abuse toward his/her own child(ren) and is therefore realistically considered a threat to his/her GC should be totally excluded.

In other cases, supervised visits can be arranged. If a d.i.l. or s.i.l. doesn't wish to have any contact with their m.i.l., the children's other parent can ensure contact with GP's is maintained, even if infrequently.

It is cruel and heartless to treat a parent in this way without good reason and I've seen nothing here that justifies their behaviour.

Good post Smileless xx

I don't know why posters need to be unkind, some attacking, the OP has asked for help, advise & a friendly ear!

Yogagirl The point is that NO adult has the right to show up at another's home uninvited, send unwanted mail, or tell another person how to raise their children.

Let me give you another example. FIL insisted on bringing his children round his parents' place.

TRIGGER

GFIL was a paedophile who molested his own daughter over the course of several years.

END TRIGGER

Given that 11% of molested children are molested by a family member, does the fact that GFIL was "family" mean he was okay to be around the children? (FIL's defence was that "I never saw that side of him".) FIL body-shamed me and DSD (when I have a legitimate medical condition that makes losing weight difficult) and tried to destroy our marriage. Is that acceptable?

Just because someone is "family" does not give them a free pass to be toxic and unreasonable.

Nurse you are on a whole deferent topic to what OP is talking about; a loving grandmother visiting her grandchildren & son!

agnurse your example seems unreasonable I'm afraid ...paedophilia is just not relevant on this thread. If you wish to debate your question, why not start a separate thread.

Smileless ...your thoughtful post has many things to consider ....it has struck me that a description of particular behaviours does not show anyone how those behaviours were enacted ...I am not in anyway advocating CO per se, but I do recognise that behaviours can be overwhelming and intolerable over time and some aspects of the OPs comments suggest this might be how they were percieved.

I personally cannot understand why so many estrangements seem to lack any sort of discussion / explanation etc to sort things out ...in this case there seems to have been some, probably more was needed but if very specific requests are made they do need to be listened to ...treading on eggshells does seem to be a lot of GPs lot! Someone else on GN described it as "Walking across a minefield without a map" which I think sums it up very well for many!

Criticising someone else's parenting and showing up unannounced are not characteristic "loving" behaviours. They are selfish behaviours.

I see a lot of this gran going on about what SHE wants, how hurt SHE is, how SHE has rights. I see NOTHING about the impact this is having on her son, DIL, or GC. She is comparing what her friends get to what she gets. That's characteristic of a primary school child complaining because another child gets to do or have something and she doesn't. This is not adult behaviour.

There is SO much wise advice on this thread for you OP, so please read carefully what has been said.

The overwhelming view is of course that you need to back right off. It's your only hope of ever resuming some sort of relationship with the family in the future.

A very thoughtful post from you, Smileless, in both senses of the word, and of course very relevant because you know more than most about the situation.

One small thing - the OP was asked (ordered) to stay away for 3 years, not 2, and did. I’m puzzled as to how much further she can “back right off”, JenniferEccles, and how doing so would help her, given that the 3 year non-contact didn’t?

maggiemaybe I think the problem is that she evidently didn't back off ...if you look at the OP and her later comments, the impression is that the backing off didn't really happen. I am not in anyway suggesting that what has happened is right , just that the "back off" not working appears not to have been a "back off" really! Very sad

I read the posts as meaning that the OP did respect their wishes and stay out of contact for 3 years (though yes, in a later post she says 2 years), and only after that tried to get in touch, going to the house (once), sending emails and cards and the controversial bible texts. It is very sad, and I think the only people who can really help in this situation are probably those who've gone through it themselves and can give calm, sound advice.

When you type a message agnurse and some of your words are in upper case, that is 'shouting' at the reader which IMO isn't adult behaviour. More acceptable if it's coming from a child of primary school age.

Keeping a paedophile away from children, as has already been stated is a different topic entirely. To bring that topic into this discussion is as insensitive to the OP as it is offensive.

I'm sure we all have tales to tell of insensitive, controlling, manipulative and unreasonable relatives but thankfully not all of us are prepared to hand out the ultimate punishment of cutting them out of our lives.

IMO to cut out this poster for the reasons she's stated is the ultimate in toxic behaviour.

In the build up to our estrangement our ES told us he needed some space. We gave it to him but never in our worse nightmares thought that it would last a life time.

Thank you Yogagirl, Maggiemaybe and Madgran.

I forgot to say Madgran that one reason why sometimes there's no discussion or explanation about the estrangement is because it is without justification.

Any 'reasons' our ES has given to his father (Mr. S.), his brother and anyone else prepared to listen have been lies. Maybe I should find comfort in the fact that I'm the one person he wont look in the eye and lie too.

My descendents are all atheists who would be mildly amused if I sent them Bible verses. I cannot see the harm in Bible verses and some of them are quite entertaining.