Squalour

I used to make greeting cards , stuff eveywhere , but I could lay my hands on whatever I needed . OH became housebound , carers coming in and they looked askance at what they saw as mess , shame caused me to tidy up , now I rarely make cards , I have all the makings and machines , but brought very few bits to the new house

Sometimes it does take others to give fresh eyes on things,i noticed after we had first been to see my nephew,2nd &3rd visits it did seem a little less cluttered,a bit cleaner on his kitchen worktop (so maybe then they realise its 'gone a bit OTT'?) But other than that,maybe best left alone.

They probably think of you as being stiff and HOUSEPROUD!

We had a supply teacher where I worked who came quite regularly. Her hatchback car was packed with messiness to the roof. There must have been 100 plastic bags of stuff and food wrappings crammed in the back with only the driver seat clear and the passenger side filled up to wing mirror level. It fascinated me and in the many years I knew her it just got worse and worse. I don’t believe she lived in the car as she was clean and tidy at work but I did wonder what her home must have been like. Perhaps it was clean and tidy too and the car contained everything she had no space for.

I’m afraid unless it is a health hazard we have to let other people lead their lives as they want. It is after all ‘normal’ for them.

Although my house is mostly clean and tidy I do have a couple of rooms and garage like this. I downsized to move into my dad's house and he never threw anything out. We did a big clear out at the time but I brought far to much from old house and genuinely don't know where to start. A lot of the stuff like lovely China and glass might be valuable but I can't face it.

Oh such a shame aggie,could you perhaps keep your crafting bits& pieces in a large plastic box,so you can just get to whats needed,or take all the gear to a local church or community group,or guides/ scouts,so you could teach others? Thus making cards to sell at a christmas fair or some such?Just some suggestions so you can continue to enjoy,and help others to enjoy, your beloved crafting skills?

Sometimes I think we can be too polite. Depends how close you are to this man and what your OH says. Perhaps suggest he gets a gardener or even perhaps one thing gets cleaned. Main concern is the sink and fridge and waste bins. He might be glad of a woman to nag him a bit.

GuestCorrectly, I have sent a private message to your Inbox

Sounds just like my batchelor brother except he looks like a tramp although he explains it away by saying he’s been gardening. He drives a spotless merc and has a lovely house ( outside) came to a head when he fell breaking his leg and I went to assist. Hadn’t been inside for several years as he always had an excuse ( come and see the garden etc) I was shocked, as we’re his neighbours. One was feeding his cat and brought his own bowls across! When he was in hospital my husband and I attempted a clean up as social services wanted to inspect before he returned home to make sure safe for him. They had no idea how bad it was. In the event we did a massive clear out and he promised to be cleaner. He refused social services to come in and went home eventually. I’m not sure he even noticed the lack of cat poo everywhere, the clean curtains and floors and the lack of very out of date food clogging each cupboard. It was so upsetting but he lives his life as he wants and I haven’t seen inside again after one year. My sister and I know how he lives but respect his rights to independence. I just hope I’m not the one to turn the house out when he goes ( he’s much older than me and in poor health)

I could never live in mess, not even a bit of mess but if other people do that's their life and their business.
I'd not even be inclined to help clear it up. It would, 9 times out of 10, revert to the original state.
There must be a name for the state of mind where a person can happily ignore a house falling into disrepair and junk/dirt piling up.
Maybe it just got too much in the end. Men usually aren't as fussy as women.

I am not concerned about his living conditions if that is what he likes, but the MICE? Surely they need removing?
There used to be a program on TV called Obsessive Compulsive Cleaners and that showed plenty of properies in the same condition. He is not alone. My sister lived in a messy house in South Africa and would not allow anybody to visit . I invited myself over and travelled all the way to Cape Town, and she collected me from the Airport. From the outside I could see her house was going to be a tip: it looked awful, paint peeling all over. She proudly told me she had got an African man to clean up the day before. It was still full of rubbish inside. The kitchen particularly was awful. I was there 2 weeks and did some cleaning and tidying and throwing out every day. We visited a nearby friend of hers who said "X often visits, but she never invites me back." My sister knew her place was a mess but she just did not care. Some people are like that.

My brother is only 56 - divorced , and his place is a bit like that - not so bad, no mice and counter front is clean but the back is covered with bottles and spices and piles of crap that needs washing and put into cupboards.
I’m itching to get in there with a bucket of bleach but I don’t know how to say it - he’s s very intelligent man, far brighter than me. But a bit yuck. I always turn up with a Starbucks in hand because his mugs are stained. He smokes indoors too. His choice I guess.

The friend I mentioned in my earlier post once told me that he had been refused renewal of his house insurance because he had not complied with certain safety measures, so it sounds as if his house is not only structurally unsound but also not insured. His neighbours have complained to the council about the state of his property and garden. He himself told me all this, with no real attempt to make excuses nor to put things right. When someone is of sound mind there is little you can do, except gently suggest getting help, but you have to wait for the right moment.

GuestCorrectly - remember it is HIS home and how he chooses to live is up to him. He is obviously OK mentally as he makes himself look nice and works. We must all learn not to expect everyone to live as we do.

Hmmm I know many men and ladies who are blind to messy homes. But if you saw my office\workshop you'd say maybe I'm the same. But I'm kept in order at home

It sounds like he is a true ‘Hoarder’. It is a mental disorder that makes it impossible for them to get rid of anything and therefore their houses become filled to the brim to the point of being deathtraps in some cases. I have a relative like this and when I tried to help and ended up taking some rubbish to the tip they got extremely angry and totally disowned me for a while. We are on speaking terms again now but I do not comment on or offer help with their house. I suggest you do the same. The only annoying thing is when they are no longer on this earth some other poor soul has to deal with cleaning up their squalor. ☹️

does he have a birthday coming up? You could suggest, that as your birthday present to him, you do a bit of a tidy/clean up - but only the stuff he wants you to touch? Might be a gentle way to get going. Often people are so pleased with the results when they can see a table or chair for the first time for years (!) that they then want everything else to be tidied up? You'll have to go in softly softly though, which you are well aware of.
good luck!

Aepgirl GuestCorrectly - remember it is HIS home and how he chooses to live is up to him. He is obviously OK mentally as he makes himself look nice and works. We must all learn not to expect everyone to live as we do.
But not when it affects the health and safety of neighbours! If the house in the OP is as uncared-for as described, it's highly likely that the electrical wiring has never been inspected and is possibly unsafe; it could also be structurally unsafe. There will almost certainly be mice or rats as well, and they won't be stopping at the property boundaries! The overgrown garden, besides spreading weed seeds far and which could also be housing one or more old overgrown trees with roots that are undermining his - or his neighbours'- foundations.
Unless a "hoarders' delight" house is out in the countryside with no neighbours nearby, it will be a hazard to others.

You are very kind to worry about your relative. Some people just can't sort out the house. I'm not good at it but only got in a mess because of a disaster and my health which means I have to lie down most of the day.

The evil thieving builder who left my house unfinished left me, disabled, unable to unpack the boxes I had packed away my things into before he started. My house is a kind of dump. I do not know where to start. On top of this, I still have some of my late mother's things and a lot of things from the home of a man who committed suicide and left me to find him. I can't park near enough to Charity shops to get rid of it all and lifting books etc is painful. My favourite trip out is to the tip recycling centre where they know me and are so kind to me.

Then I found a person at Age UK who gave me the number of another group. A wonderful young man came out and he is arranging for a charity that rehouse people who lose their homes in an emergency. They are away in August but in September I hope they will arrive. There are so many organisations that want to help us elderly stay in our homes.

You might benefit from talking to someone at Age UK in his area. They might say leave him if he is in good health, but just talking to them might help you feel better about him and not worry so much.

If the mice are contaminating food - they wee everywhere - this isn't too good. When the builders left holes in my walls I bought an electric machine that does not distress cats and dogs but keeps away vermin, cockroaches spiders, everything you don't want! on Amazon there are many.
I filled the worst hole myself incidentally. It was kind of like icing a cake but lying on your stomach to do it in a dark place in the corner under the stop cock!

If conditions are dangerous, there are people who will do Hoarder Clearance. They are discrete and professional. It is expensive. I looked into it because of the amount of stuff I had to move to have the floors taken up but they said it wasn't a hoarded category so didn't need the expense of their service. I was impressed by the people. The council sometimes fund it for a person in need. E.g. when a person cannot leave hospital until their home is safe.

I do understand how people can become unable to cope. It happens very easily and quickly. In my case it's being disabled and having no cupboards as well as needing to have my floors taken up. There is nowhere to put anything except on the work-top where I have to put my food as well as plates etc! On top of this I have all my DIY tools and pots of paint around as these jobs have got to be done and there is only me to do it as the evil builder defrauded me out of a lot of money. But if this gentleman got rid of some of his extraneous stuff he might manage better.

My adorable FIL didn't know what to do with things. Once I knew him well, I just helped him organise where to put things. His main problem was paperwork so I gave him an easy filing system of three boxes. Withe food and food prep, I just sorted out the things he needed daily and put the rest away, keeping a few pots and plates near the front for the odd times he needed to use a bit more. My system at the mo is to use just a few items for eating and cooking and not have many out. Once the cupboards and shelves are up and the other furniture is back when my floors are mended, I can get to my other dinner service and food prep dishes etc.

Some people just get depressed. Some are getting dementia - hence forget the toast is there. I have to admit, I made a rice pudding and completely forgot that the remainder was still in the oven (too hot for fridge) until I found it several days later! I have also defrosted items for the next day and not remembered them. This happens a lot because I get terrible migraines. I live alone and realise how not having another person who remembers things makes a big difference. It also makes a difference with carrying things upstairs such as the laundry. Being disabled this is very difficult. Some people just can't do housework. I never had much talent for it but I always kept our home clean and clear of clutter. Some have burn-out from a far too demanding career - like Social Work!

I've known several men in their 50's who lived like this - including a brother-in-law. It was appalling.

Yes people can live how they want to, but it can become a health risk, especially as we age, can't see things so well, or just can't be bothered to get rid of waste.

I think most people would recognise that it's not just a case of being untidy. It is a case of food waste being spilt or left about on the floor, plates and benches for weeks that attract vermin; a toilet that no longer flushes properly and hasn't been clean for some time; dirty bed linen that hasn't been cleaned for months etc. These are the types of issues that would ring alarm bells for me.

It will require more than your standard cleaner to work through it so it is worth knowing that there are companies out there that can do one-off blitzes - like an end of tenancy clean - should help be needed, although it's not always cheap.

There is an on-line provider where you can find qualified tradespeople on their database who do this sort of work in any location. They are give thorough checks, including Police checks and there is a facility to read feedback.

Although a one-off blitz won't solve an on-going problem, I guess there could be a possibility that the cleaning company agrees to come in once a month to provide a top-up at a much cheaper rate.

I appreciate it is difficult to approach people about this sort of concern as we found ourselves, and the best thing is to monitor it for any deterioration in living conditions and mental health. It's a tough one.

As for free-will, yes I go along with that, but life changes as you get older. The tables turn and SOME older people, like young people, do start needing protection as they can no longer can make the judgement calls they used to, especially against fast-talkers whose sole objective it to cause them financial harm; or not being able to help themselves get out of a domestic rut because everything has become very physically demanding and hard for them like moving, lifting items, putting out rubbish etc.

I commend you GuestCorrectly for caring which is something we all need to do for those we perceive as being vulnerable. We'll get a short shrift if attention is not wanted, but at least we can say we tried.

My husband piles things in bedrooms, his clothes mostly. He says he needs so many clothes for different circumstances, ie he often has to work away from home. We have enough toiletries to rival an average size branch of Boots! He says he gets them as they are bargains and will go up in price. He has hoarded carrier bags since we have had to pay for them. He does not seem to know how to put anything away tidily. I recently sneaked a massive amount of bags to charity shops and every so often sneak some clothes to charity shops too. He is always smartly dressed and l keep the downstairs as tidy as l can, particularly as l mostly work from home. It does get me down, though, as with working myself the last thing l want is to face and/or discuss the hoard. Hoarders always have a reason for the way they are and genuinely show fear that someone might clear everything away. In every other way he is a very good, loving husband and father. He also holds a highly responsible job that requires intelligence.

aggie

I am so sorry to hear that you have packed tour hobby away. I am terribly upset that those people actually made you feel shame for having around you the necessary items that go with an artistic hobby. I have been attacked in the same way.

Since being disabled I too have craft hobbies. My daughters decided to visit when I had some of my hobby materials out and immediately decided that I was on the cusp of hoarding things. Bits of fabric, which have so many uses, for quilting, for example, to them looked like off cuts of rubbish so they were annoyed when I said I needed them.

After they left I looked on the internet for storage ideas and for what actually constituted hoarding. I knew I wasn't a hoarder because of my frequent trips to the tip!

I found a very useful definition, which I put on the wall above my craft things:

Mess = Untidiness of items not in the right place because a) out being used b) awaiting organisation

Clutter = Things which do not add value to your life.

The lady giving advice about how to de-clutter said there is one golden rule:
Do not decide for other people about their stuff. You will only hurt them. be patient and respectful.

I could have kissed her! My children's attitude that day cut deep into my heart. I had given them a home and everything they had for a happy life in extremely difficult conditions because their father was cruel and mean and selfish. He was a covert narcissist of the cruelest kind.
That day, by judging me and not bothering to see exactly what I had been through at the hands of this builder, who had not even built the wheelchair ramp but taken nearly twice the estimate by threatening me, and by deciding that because I had boxes of things I must be hoarding, when in those boxes were the plates they had eaten from, still packed away from the building work because there were no cupboards and because the floors all had to be taken up.... By jumping to conclusions and deciding I must be something they had just learned about from TV, actually they drove a huge rift us. I no longer trust them. I know they are out of touch with me. I know they have no idea about my life, about my disabilities of how much pain I am in. They do not want to have any kind of understanding that their lives were as they had them because of what I did for them but prefer to think that their daddy was wonderful and he would be be much better to have around. It is so unbearable that I now avoid them.

On the info I looked up, the lady also gave some advice about how to get rid of things by deciding if they added value to your life. She said we could decide on the following points;
Love - do I love it?
Use - do I use it?
Space - Is there space for it?
Lifestyle - Does it fit my lifestyle? (It might have done once, but now is out of use, even though you have got used to thinking of it as being there.)

aggie, it saounds to me as though the card making was an essential part of your identity and a very rewarding creative hobby in which you could become immersed and express yourself. I think it would be wonderful if you could resume doing it. Could you not find a part of the room for your work table and storage boxes and equipment on shelves? Ant "looking askance" at art work in progress, to me, shows nothing but ignorance. It reminds me of my mother, when I was revising for A level, saying "Stop idling around there with your head stuck in a book and get up and do something useful."

GuestCorrectly There could be reasons why your relative has become unable to sort out the house. But unless he completely trusts you and feels you support him and respect him, you cannot help him.

I am a bit worried about the mice and would suggest you get one of the deterrent machines that you plug in.

My cousin has a friend who lives in the most unbelievable squalor. His personal hygiene is also very poor, because his bathroom is full of old tin cans which he is saving ‘to sell to a scrap merchant’.
His main problem is that he seems almost psychotically penny-pinching. He only flushes the toilet every two days to save the water meter!
He is very wealthy and frequently boasts about how much money he has, but will not consider paying a cleaner. He says that ‘a good woman’ should be happy to do his cleaning for free!
I think he is hoping that my cousin and I might be such good women, but altho’ we try to help, the situation is so extreme that two or three professional cleaners are needed to make a significant improvement.
I understand that he may have mental health issues, but it’s difficult to help him. He’s pretty lazy and obnoxious to be honest, as well as very whiffy, and his constant litany of complaints about having to pay perfectly reasonable costs is very wearing.
In an attempt to scratch the surface, my cousin has spent a lot of money on cleaning products for his house. He’s never offered a penny for her expenses, and has taken her efforts completely for granted.
You’ll probably think I’m a very hard-hearted old biddy, but although I feel bound to support my poor cousin in her efforts to help this unpleasant man, I really can’t stand him, and don’t know why she bothers. I’d let him rot in his own filth!

I have to confess my house is in a terrible state. I used to work 3 days a week and just about kept on top of things, but then I changed jobs and for the last 6 years have worked 5 days a week, so things have got out of hand. I am currently trying to do a bit of a clear up as my DS and DIL are coming to stay next week. They know it will be a mess but it is far worse than the last time they came so I'm trying to improve things a bit. It's really hard though.

I am due to retire in a year's time and plan to de-clutter and downsize then but I guess it will take quite a time to achieve that. I rarely have friends round as I'm too ashamed of the state of the place, which is sad as I used to love entertaining. Unfortunately when things get out of hand it is quite overfacing to begin. I make a start sometimes but get exhausted quickly and rarely complete anything.

I also like making craft items which I give as gifts or sell for charity but I have lots of partially completed projects and materials I've collected for project ideas which need organising too. I guess I'm a hoarder in that respect as I can always come up with ideas for things I could make out of things other people would simply put in the bin.

I occasionally have been to other people's homes which are like mine and in some cases far worse. It can be a releif to know I'm not the only one who lives like this. I think it is something that often happens to people when they live alone after the family leave, especially as they get older. I live in hope that one day I will get to grips with it and put things in order. I know how good it feels after a tidy up but I don't seem to be able to keep things tidy for long!

His house, his rules. I have a close friend whose house can only be described as 'sticky' but it's not my business to comment.
Feel (as ever) rather depressed by Liz46 on here asking her husband for 'help' with housework. Since when were we born with dusters in our hands and why do so many men STILL assume the house is our job? Surely it's a shared enterprise? Isn't this 2019, not 1959?