No sleep and spitting feathers

If she is stealing money (whether from the government or an individual), that is theft. Money which she does not need should be used for those who do need it.

Her moral values are non existent and whether or not it would cause a family fall out is not relevant. I wouldn't want her to think that it is acceptable behaviour and that I condone it.

I would say that she had to give full details of her income to the benefits agency now, or I will.

If you saw her steal from an elderly person's purse - would you ignore it. Benefit fraud is exactly the same.

Tigertooth I dont think shes jealous shes just trying to give a description as well as shes really angry actually shes really annoyed rightly so.

The fact that she told you, sounds like your SD was bragging. Why does her DF give her an allowance at all never mind at 59 years of age? That should stop. Your SD is robbing the public purse. SD must have separate bank accounts for some of her funds as doesn't DWP expect to see statements now and again. Her benefits and household expenses in one all other income and expenses in the withheld one. It's criminal. The fact others do it doesn't make it right. Leave a few months and then report anonymously.

It’s wrong.
You falling out with her and the family will not make it right.
If you feel you need to make clear your opinion, do so, but then move on.
Don’t allow it to cloud your relationships.

I sympathise. You’re in a difficult position.
I have a similar dilemma. My son’s Partner is claiming PIP. She uses it to fund a Motability car. She lied to the assessor about her mobility. She gets around very well and even walks their dog regularly!!
When I see programmes on the TV or radio about disabled people being refused PIP and saying the assessments are tough, I just don’t understand how she gets away with her fraudulent claim. It’s fraud - clear and simple.

Awkward but I would keep out of it she will be found out eventually.

Its theft and should be treated as such. I would, however much it would upset the family, inform on her. The benefit agency will take details, even asking you for a description of her and then put a watch on her house.

What sort of example is this to her children and as for your husband, well as an ex policeman he should know better and back you. Go for it.

She obviously expected OP to share her delight at her fraud. I am afraid that like sodapop, I would have made my disapproval very clear indeed.

However she is likely to be caught out, on income at least. She may be showing Benefits Agency a nice 'clean' bank statement, but all banks, building societies, insurance companies, quoted companies etc have to make annual declarations to HMRC, listing every one who is a customer/investor with the organisation and the size of their funds invested with them and any interest paid. The HMRC pass these on to the Benefits Agency who then take appropriate action.

How do I know? I was a Benefits Advisor with what was once Age Concern and I had to help several clients who had received demands to repay benefits they had been received because they had building society or bank accounts, they failed to mention when filling in benefit's forms.

Once they find you have cheated on one benefit, that is passed on and the LA will start checking on Housing Benefit and Council Tax Bnefit.

Sit back and enjoy it while she does and then enjoy the feelings of shadenfreude, when the Benefits Agency catch up with her.

fraud, there is no other word for it.

What is being defrauded, apart from a possible 25% discount on the council tax, which has nothing to do with the benefit system?

It is interesting to notice how we are either rules-based people or not - the responses fall into clearly different camps. If you are someone (as I am) who thinks rules should apply to everyone then finding the behaviour detailed in the OP’s post shocking is inevitable; it isn’t a matter for sitting on the fence at all.

Doodlebug Council tax is a benefit and she is not entitled to it and can be prosecuted for claiming it dishonestly, fraud and blatant theft of public resources.

Her UC would be lower - or even non-existent - if it was known she had income from other sources, namely her father and a resident son, who whether he actually pays for his keep or not will be deemed to do so by the BA.

AS GrannySomerset says, rules is rules and they apply to everyone.

Her son is there, there should be an income from him to the household. He’s not a dependent child, he’s a grown man “ with a good job in the city”. She gets a monthly allowance from her father, much like you’d get a monthly salary. If she has savings over a certain amount, I think £16,000, this could mean she wouldn’t get universal credit at all. From the OP, it sounds like the daughter knows she’s not entitled, to the point someone pointed out it almost sounds like she’s gloating. We all know it’s wrong, and the OP won’t ever be able to relax now she is privy to it. If it was me, I’d be so angry with her and my husband, particularly as my own daughter has done everything right. I would owe it to my daughter, if nothing else, to put this right.

It's morally wrong anyway but maybe like doodle here she is not aware that she is really stealing. Rather like when people stole from Woolworths or any big company they felt less guilt because it wasn't like they were taking from an individual.

The Councils up and down the land get high quotes from tradesmen when work is put out to tender.
I know because it's happening in my town right now and the trades boast about it.

As has been said, money from family doesn't count. I had a student who was a single parent, unemployed and had most of her rent and council tax paid from benefits.

She had her own horse and sports car, had a glamorous lifestyle (holidays, plastic surgery, stylist, cleaner, gardener, etc.) yet wasn't officially cheating the system. Her family helped her out a lot - and, yes, it was pretty sickening that she felt the need to claim benefits at all!

Livlass should know that her stepdaughter is responsible for getting and paying her son's contribution towards the rent and council tax. She could face a massive pay back bill when it's discovered that he's living there. As a tax payer, I really resent supporting him!

*Doodlebug Council tax is a benefit and she is not entitled to it and can be prosecuted for claiming it dishonestly, fraud and blatant theft of public resources.

Her UC would be lower - or even non-existent - if it was known she had income from other sources, namely her father and a resident son, who whether he actually pays for his keep or not will be deemed to do so by the BA.

AS GrannySomerset says, rules is rules and they apply to everyone.*

Yes, and I have repeatedly agreed that if the son is not paying Council Tax elsewhere then they should pay the full amount. I'm not sure that the discount is a benefit as such - it is available to anyone who lives in a property alone, regardless of income or circumstances (including whether or not they have paid NI contributions), but that is splitting hairs, I suppose.

Presents from relatives do not count as income when it comes to UC. How could it possibly be policed? I suppose that if there is a regular standing order going into a bank account then it would be traceable, but cash transactions would be impossible to trace, and a police inspector would surely be aware of this.

I don't think that legally or morally it is wrong to help out a child (of any age) who has fallen on hard times, just as I don't see an issue with helping out a parent. The number of people on here who seem to think that people should basically have nothing before being entitled to any sort of benefits is worrying, I think. Would people go round to claimants' houses on Boxing Day and deduct the value of any presents from their benefits? Should a family member not be allowed to invite claimants over for dinner without it being declared? Where would you draw the line?

I am not saying that anyone should be above the rules - just that in this case, there are no rules that say that charity should not begin at home, nor that gifts from family members are disallowed. The son is a different matter, if he is a permanent resident, rather than a visitor.

I have anonymously reported people to the relevant authorities before now. I find it doesn’t sit with me to know of fraud and keep quiet about it

Gosh - does she have any idea what will happen if/when she gets found out? I know this lady doesn't have dependent children but we were completely shocked when the mother of one of our children's friends ended up in prison (I think it was around 6 or 9 months) for fraud - she was claiming benefits she was not entitled to. They appeared to have everything - lovely house, car. etc, but she said she was a single parent living/claiming elsewhere. The poor child had to live with relatives whilst mum was inside and we never ever saw mum again - we guessed she was too ashamed to show her face.. We think they moved away.
It is probably only a matter of time before she is caught - can't imagine she will think that it was worth it then.

I found it interesting that the section of people in receipt of benefits/pensions who were responsible for the greatest number of fraud offences were people in receipt of Retirement Pension (sorry for the over-long sentence). I’m going back 6 years. The data was provided by the Fraud Section.

She sounds very smug telling you this,Maybe her father didn’t know beforehand wonder what he thinks to it. Being an ex superintendent, yes it’s disgusting when People are struggling, she sounds to me as though she knows what she’s doing, which makes it worse, as a father he can give whatever money he likes to his daughter you say he’s been helping her out for years, having never claimed anything ourselves we don’t know how the system works but would imagine you should declare all incomings, but of course if her father is giving her cash she won’t be declaring that will she, I would report her but I’d tell her I was going to if she didn’t stop

I hate people like this, sorry she is but nothing more than scrounging scum
My partner and I got into financial difficulties when he had cancer and had no help. It was awful as he couldn’t work for a month and the knock on effect was dire.
I would have no qualms about squealing about her and her ilk.
I’m blunt because this sort of thing makes me furious

I used to work for the DWP and it amazes me how many people think they can outwit the system. I would do nothing OP, it will cause too much of a family rift. What claimants don’t realise is that there are various checks and cross references going on in the background and the longer it goes on the more chance she has of being found out - she’s defrauding the DWP and her local authority if she is having rent and council tax paid. If you really feel as though you should say something to her, try pointing out that the authorities may already be on to her and she may already be under surveillance. The DWP don’t act until they have irrefutable evidence and she won’t know she’s being investigated until she’s asked to attend an interview under caution once the fraud department have gathered enough information to press their case. The penalties these days are severe, and rightly so.

Davidhs you think that everyone has done something like this at some time????? really???? the reason our society is broken is because there are so many tax dodgers....from corporates to the individual who takes cash in hand. If you don't want to be a criminal and cheat....then abide by the law. If you cheat or avoid taxes...then don't use our schools, NHS, roads, don't call the police or the firemen, don't use social services or the library. I am sick to the back teeth of selfish, self serving people who think its ok to lie and cheat. Your step daughter needs telling that she is a liar, a cheat and a criminal. Let her make of that what she will.

Pammiel How long does it take on average, from perhaps having a suspicion about someone, or receiving a report of a fraudster, to actually attending that interview under caution? I’ve seen documentaries etc. where the fraud has gone on for years, and the fraudsters have been unable to pay the money back because they’ve spent it all. They’ve lived a life taking from people who need it, maybe over 10 years, which is a lifetime for a child in poverty. I understand they get punished, maybe even go to prison, but ‘ victims’ can’t get that time back. There’s going to be a family rift now, whatever. The OP can’t unhear what she’s been told, and it will eat away at her. She needs to deal with this now. Like I said in my first post, give her a month to come clean herself, and then report her.

im in the same situation and ashamed of what they do.i keep out of it.i express my disaproval.thats as far as i go.i would never rat on them.but i distant myself to an extent

Message withdrawn at poster's request.