Sister Wives - could you?

I know what you mean. I wouldn't like it either - it is an adulterous marriage of sorts.

I'm just not sure what sexual morality has to do with the state - I think that's a dangerous road to go down, really.

Also - I have been confusing the Mormons and the LDS. I thought the LDS were 'Moonies' or one of the other US sects, but it appears that LDS and Mormons are the same thing.

The last programme I watched about this sort of thing was Smiley Happy People, about women having to wear long dresses in particular colours, wear their hair in specific styles and being very submissive to the men. This is not at all like that. The women all have long hair, but that appears on the surface at least to be from choice. They wear jeans or work clothes and have careers of their own.

Now that they have got entirely separate homes the cracks are definitely widening though. This really is fascinating. I am sorting out bedrooms and have it on in the background, as it's the sort of thing you can listen to rather than watch.

Where are they living now Doodledog (where you are up to)? Las Vegas? In the cul de sac?

Daddima

*Doodledog*, aren’t Mormons the same as the ‘Latter Day Saints mob’? If not, what is the difference?

Yes, it's an alternative name for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

They have an enormous records office in Salt Lake City and the intention, I think, is to gather vital records on everyone who has lived, if possible, to enable them to give us all salvation.

Very useful for doing genealogical research.

Illegal?

As far as I know it’s not illegal to live with several women (or men) Marriage to more than one would be, I’m not sure but a second marriage would be void in any case.
However in Utah the whole state is run by the Mormons so they have separate laws to accommodate the religious customs, polygamy is “decriminalized”.
The father of any children will be recognized and men have to support their wives, women either buy into the lifestyle or they don’t, it’s certainly not going to suit all women.

LucyAnna

Where are they living now Doodledog (where you are up to)? Las Vegas? In the cul de sac?

They are split up into different houses, some a mile or so apart. I think they are still in Las Vegas - the move from Utah happened some time ago and they were having problems finding suitable accommodation.

Katie they are sort of on the run, as the family went public about polygamy and Kody risks jail and the rest of them would be split up, possibly with the children taken into care. It doesn't really stand up though, as you can't be on the run with cameras following you and your movements being televised .

I'm up to the episode where the wives are trying to lose weight. Up to now they have got larger with each episode - I am not judgemental about body shape but it was so noticeable that I wondered if they were comfort eating or something.

www.google.ch/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi3o_7B26qCAxX4VkEAHf2RBWgQFnoECBgQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.etonline.com%2Fsister-wives-the-surprising-history-and-connections-between-kody-and-his-wives-180809&usg=AOvVaw1DDhRE73qKMH93NCZJe4XN&opi=89978449

Hate to burst your bubble that this was a happy alliance. Article cites the downfall of this family.

Syracute

Hate to burst your bubble that this was a happy alliance. Article cites the downfall of this family.

I'm not in any sort of bubble . What makes you think that? I started with a neutral but open mind and as the series progress I am getting less keen on the idea.

I just don't think that sexual morality is the business of the state, and can't see the difference between criminalising this family and non-Mormons who have affairs, or who father children with different partners.

Dickens

It's a cult - closed to some extent to the outside world, where men hold the real power and thus have the ability to abuse.

Can a woman have more than one husband? No. Just another form of Patriarchy.

Not for me.

Polyandry is, and was practised in Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan and parts of India..

At the risk of seeming to defend it, which I'm really not - if one man has a string of affairs and tells none of the women about the others, he is not breaking the law, but if another marries them (however much we might not see it as true marriage) and they are all aware of what's happening, then he is. Both men could father lots of children with all the women, but one lot get support from one another and the others struggle on on their own. How does that make sense?

They can leave at any time (and clearly this lot do). They are not being coerced into it, and they can make careers for themselves so are not stuck in the relationship because of lack of skills.

pascal30

Dickens

It's a cult - closed to some extent to the outside world, where men hold the real power and thus have the ability to abuse.

Can a woman have more than one husband? No. Just another form of Patriarchy.

Not for me.

Polyandry is, and was practised in Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan and parts of India..

Good!

Individuals, male or female, entering freely into any relationship which is not monogamous is fine by me as long as there is no coercion.

But IMO neither sex should dictate that the privilege is only for them.

Polygamy is fully legal in 47 countries

Galaxy

If we are being indelicate it would be more the thought of what he had done on Monday that would put me off.

Might make you up your game though Galaxy!
🤣🤣

M0nica

Unless the Moromons, or any other group are equally happy and accepting of households where one woman has several husbands, all happy in there own quarters and prepared to stay celibate unless she favours them with her body, I will see this as another form of institutianal anti-feminism.

This absolutely

It would be if the women had no choice, but they go into it with their eyes open and can leave whenever they like.

The religion doesn't sanction polyandry, but I'm not sure that that makes a difference. I don't agree with that inequality personally, but lots of things about religion seem to me sexist, and so long as they are optional then surely it's up to the members to decide? I'm not talking about things like FGM or forced marriage - I mean things where the women opt in, such as obeying their husbands or having lots of children because their religion forbids contraception.

Ha urmstongran more likely that I would think someone else can put in the work and I dont need to bother

Galaxy

Ha urmstongran more likely that I would think someone else can put in the work and I dont need to bother

Doodledog

It would be if the women had no choice, but they go into it with their eyes open and can leave whenever they like.

The religion doesn't sanction polyandry, but I'm not sure that that makes a difference. I don't agree with that inequality personally, but lots of things about religion seem to me sexist, and so long as they are optional then surely it's up to the members to decide? I'm not talking about things like FGM or forced marriage - I mean things where the women opt in, such as obeying their husbands or having lots of children because their religion forbids contraception.

It would be if the women had no choice, but they go into it with their eyes open and can leave whenever they like.

That's the point, isn't it?

It wouldn't work for me - I like the commitment and 'intimacy' of a one-to-one relationship. But, it obviously works for others - though in the case highlighted it did eventually appear to go pear-shaped. However, those women chose that type of relationship, so who am I to question it? And, it is debatable whether humans are monogamous by nature - some people think we are not. So...

Presumably, Kody wasn't 'allowed' to be unfaithful to his wives outside of the marriages?

And people have so-called "open" marriages don't they, where both partners are free to have affairs and relationships with others - though I believe there are strict 'rules' governing this type of marriage which are based on respecting the other partner's boundaries and wishes. I don't think you can just meet someone on a night out and bring them into the marital home, from what I understand about the arrangement (very little), there has to be some sort of discussion about how the new relationship is going to work and 'fit in'. There has to be a lot of honesty and openness.

Again, that wouldn't work for me, either. If I felt I couldn't commit to one man, I'd not make it a permanent relationship anyway. I don't know how well - or for how long - these types of marriages work or last. I've only heard about those that eventually fail, but whether they fail because of the open marriage or in spite of it, I've no idea.

I am not really a fan of choicey choice feminism. The same argument can be levelled at prostitution, surrogacy etc. Its just that these choices always impact women and often the most vulnerable women.

These aren’t vulnerable though. I am conflicted. It’s not what I would want, but what right do I have to tell others that their choices are wrong?

m.youtube.com/watch?v=u__p7x5p9hk&t=6s

I’m finding this very interesting for those who are caught up

Doodledog

It would be if the women had no choice, but they go into it with their eyes open and can leave whenever they like.

The religion doesn't sanction polyandry, but I'm not sure that that makes a difference. I don't agree with that inequality personally, but lots of things about religion seem to me sexist, and so long as they are optional then surely it's up to the members to decide? I'm not talking about things like FGM or forced marriage - I mean things where the women opt in, such as obeying their husbands or having lots of children because their religion forbids contraception.

In many of the sects of the Mormon religion , which are not sanctioned by the Church of the Latter Day Saints , women are forced to marry , or assigned to marry a man who can have 100 or more wives. So they are pressured to marry a man that is often elderly. These are the extreme sects . The actual Mormon s of the LDS are NOT allowed to have polygamist marriages. Polygamy is illegal in the USA. I am convinced that this guy just set up this situation to make a television series about it . If you think these series are “ real “ well that’s another story much of this would have been scripted.

It’s clear that it is scripted, even though it states otherwise. As I said upthread most of it is them talking to the cameras and a crew will be following them everywhere.

I don’t know what you mean by ‘real’ - are you saying that the whole thing is a fiction, and people don’t live like that?
It may be that he has set it up, but the setup is similar to the one on Big Love, or One Man, Four Wives - I can’t remember, but I have seen something similar before.

The Browns recognise that they are ‘hated’ by LDS ( their word) and compare the difference between the groups to Catholics and Protestants in mainstream Christian religions.

Again, I am not defending them, just pointing out that what is on the programme is not denying what you say - have you seen it? They show photos of Warren Jeffs and are adamant that their way if life is not connected to his branch of Mormonism. They discuss the abuses and forced marriages and how they reject that completely.

Whether they comply with the ‘true’ Mormon faith, or with FLDS isn’t really the point. They are living as they want to do, and yes, it’s illegal in the US. My question (which I haven’t answered to myself yet) is whether it should be. I can understand bigamy and polygamy being illegal when they involve deception - both for ethical reasons and for practical and financial ones, but neither apply in this case, so I am questioning the role of the State in what is, essentially, a consensual domestic arrangement.

If it turns out later that the women were, in fact, coerced into the lifestyle I will agree that the law should protect against that, but the number of series runs well into double figures, so it would be a huge deception from the TV company (which it seems did happen with the one about the Duggans). It still wouldn’t mean that consensual polygamy should necessarily be illegal though - just that TV companies should do better research.

I find it very interesting, Doodledog, how you articulate your reactions and opinions as you follow the series. I shall certainly be interested in your reaction by the end!
I think all 4 wives were brought up in polygamous families, so that was what they were used to. The relationship between Kody (the “husband”) and the first wife, Meri, broke down partly, I think, because she was unable to have more than one child. It’s interesting - and to me, surprising - that from what is shown on the programmes, the children seem happy and settled, with children of their own ( none of them are polygamous).

Thanks, LucyAnna. I'm interested to know what happens, although having clicked on Summerlove's link I now know that all but one of the marriages failed. I stopped watching the video as I'd rather see things unfold in 'real time', but it was interesting that Kody was still grinning as he spoke and very much playing the showman. There is a definite insincerity about him.

Yes, on the whole the children (the eldest boy is going to college/university in the episode I'm up to) seem well adjusted. It must be quite a nice life with all those siblings around, but I don't suppose they get a lot of one to one attention. Having said that, as they all live with their own mothers, it's not much different from monogamous marriages I suppose.