Paternity leave to be financed

Had my daughters in 1978, 1980 and 1984 no paid paternity leave . I was in hospital 2 days each time and DH took one weeks holiday from the day I came home. My mum was able to look after the other children until then .
I’m trying to decide if it would have good to have him home for longer. 😁

I gave birth in the early 80s. My DH used holidays to have time off and of course he helped as much as he could- although he drove me nuts at times.
Welived a fair distance from family, but friends and neighbours helped out as they did back then.

I completely support parental leave and find OPs viewpoint very mean-spirited.

My SiL is a very hands on dad and this only enriches the family life especially as he is a great role model for his two sons.

My son is equally a very hands on dad even though he now only sees his DD once a week.

I was born in the late 50s and recall my dad mucking in to help when needed- cooking meals and washing clothes were not beyond or beneath him.

OP reveals a ceratin attitude that because it was like this for me then it should be the same forever.

Good job the Victorians didn't have this attitude!

I for one think it's a great thing. My husband, although he worked shifts, was a very hands-on dad, and my son has been the same with his two children. I thought attitudes had changed, but it seems from here that not everyone has. Not everyone is fortunate enough to have family close enough to help out - or may not have family who want to be involved, or who they want to be involved.

Excellent. Our first was born in 1995. My husband took an unpaid sabbatical to be around for the first few months. They became incredibly close, still are. Everyone should have the same opportunity.

Personally I don’t support paternity leave unless there are special circumstances. Guess I’m just old school.

GrannyIvy

For the life of me, I cannot understand this attitude. It’s seems very much of. I struggled so women today should also struggle.

I am not saying I struggled so want others too at all but just saying the men worked and the women stayed at home to care for the children back then. I took seven years off work and loved every minute. It is different today because many women have careers and cannot take time away or afford too. It is just a very different world now

But it's it good that women have the choice now - both whether to work or not, or even whether to have children at all?

My Dh took annual leave or arranged shifts around when I had our babies. I think what’s different nowadays is that new mothers leave hospital so very quickly, even after a CS, often without breastfeeding being properly established. Nor do midwives visit daily like they used to. From my DD and DIL’s experience, they only visit every three days or so and sometimes even that is merely a phone call.

Mums need someone at home to care for them, their own mums might not live near or might still be working or have care duties towards their own parents.

I think it’s a cost the government should pick up, though, and not burden businesses with it.

Summerlove

^Personally I don’t support paternity leave unless there are special circumstances. Guess I’m just old school.^

GrannyIvy

For the life of me, I cannot understand this attitude. It’s seems very much of. I struggled so women today should also struggle.

It is quite a common reaction though, the wish to see today's mothers struggle because they themselves struggled.
I don't understand it either.

Looking back cossy, it really didn’t occur to me to ask for help, which by today’s standards does seem ridiculous. I grew up without a father so perhaps I just had no idea that fathers could help. This was fifty three years ago and thank goodness things have changed. At the time I wasn’t alone, I don’t think any of my friend’s husbands were very involved.

No, he was busy preparing a ship for sea then sailed a week after DC1 was born. Away for four months.
At least he met the baby first!
Luckily my parents stayed for a while.

My husband took an unpaid sabbatical to be around for the first few months.
Unpaid? 😲

Cossy

Norah

Cossy Not really sure why OP considers this “beyond ridiculous” in her her husband’s case, but many of us have very hands on husbands.

Rules are changing, I support the leave provisions.

Yes, I’m aware of this, but the rules are only changing in terms of being able able to claim paid paternity leave from day one, paid paternity leave has been in place for several years.

paid paternity leave has been in place for several years.

I was wondering what was new about this.

Norah

Yes, my husband has always been engaged with our children.

A father can be engaged with his children even if paternity leave was not the norm years ago and even if he had to spend time working away from home.

My DH took a week's holiday leave when our daughter was born and then 2 weeks for our son as I'd had placenta previa throughout the pregnancy, resulting in an emergency c-section and a blood transfusion. My own mum still worked full time and my mil lived too far away and was much older, so I'm very much in support of paternal leave.

My DP had 2 weeks paid leave for each of my 3 AC ...eldest now 35 ...he worked for local authority....he was very hands on ...I'm 60 now

OP, why have you put 'help' in quotation marks, and why do you think fathers helping is 'beyond ridiculous'? I really don't understand that at all.

A new mum is likely to need help, not just want it. Not all of us have our own mums nearby or willing to help if they are, and those first weeks are when babies bond with their parents, learn their smell, voices etc. Obviously if it isn't possible for dad to be around then that's just the way it is, but if it can happen, even for a couple of weeks, then why not? As has been said, this change is just to allow men who are new in post to have the same rights as those who've been with their employer for longer. I'm not sure how that means that 'small businesses will struggle'.

Mine was on a Warship when our son was born. In those day 1988... All I had to communicate with him was a letter... Our son was 3 months old when my DH met him for the first time.
When our DD was born few years later just weeks before she was due, his appointer got in contact to give him the heads up he was one of 2 Officers who might have to go to the Falklands Island ASAP , due to an Medical emergency.
Fortunately for me, (not him) my DH had a ongoing eye problem so needed specialist care, in the UK. The service give him a 2 weeks paternity leave this time, then he got sent 100 miles away, however he did get home at weekends.
TBH I could have done with a hand.

Doodledog, I put help in quotation marks just because my DH would have been no help whatsoever coming from a home where the only thing a son was required to do to help was bring in the coal or perhaps go shopping with a list. Not so unusual in those days, and he would have been more of a hindrance than a help.

I think it will be tough for small businesses to pay new fathers for paid leave, but I’m not saying it’s wrong. It’s a good thing that it’s in place, I never said that it wasn’t.

Thanks for replying.

I see what you mean about the help, but these days I think most men are more than capable of making themselves useful. I may have misread your OP, as I thought you were saying that the idea of paid PL was beyond ridiculous, but if not, that's my mistake and I apologise.

Small businesses have had to cover a couple of weeks PL for a while now - the new scheme won't alter that, but will make more people eligible. I'm not sure how many new dads will be in jobs they have recently started though - I can't see it making a huge difference to profits.

No, just the thought of my DH helping with a new baby was beyond ridiculous, perhaps I didn’t make that clear. I’m quite envious of dads that were or are hands on. And I do think PT is a good thing.

My husband used a week's holiday from work when each of our boys were born. Where is the money going to come from to cover this new proposal?

Slightly off topic, but for rather boring reasons I was given the statistics of public sector workers in my area who had done the shared maternity leave thing, where male and female can split the allocated leave, so mum does say 6 months and dad 3 months or whatever. This was about 5 years ago but across the whole county only one couple had chosen to share the leave. I thought that was interesting in terms of sharing the role of parenting.

GrannyIvy

I am not saying I struggled so want others too at all but just saying the men worked and the women stayed at home to care for the children back then. I took seven years off work and loved every minute. It is different today because many women have careers and cannot take time away or afford too. It is just a very different world now

It is indeed a different world, and much more difficult in many ways, but still you some of you say you don’t understand or support PL?

Well I guess you may well have been kept in hospital for a few weeks and nurses popped babies together in the nursery at night, so some of you ladies would have benefitted from a rest, not have to deal with a new baby the day after you gave birth and all the housework, cooking etc etc

I was discharged within 20 hours with first two babies, but with the second two I had pre-eclampsia and with final one gestational diabetes and then picked up a hospital infection. My parents worked and were not at all helpful. Thank goodness my DH was around. Also fathers deserve time to “bond” with their babies too.

Doodledog

I had two c sections. I was quite ill after the first and when the second came along I also had a toddler to look after. I don’t know how I would have coped if my husband hadn’t been there. I fully support paid paternity leave.

I was the same Doodledog
I was very ill after my first caesarean in 1969.Trouble was the baby was late, and my DH had arranged a holiday form work for two weeks after my due date.As it turned out I was in hospital with our DS1 all those two weeks.We came home the day before he was due back to work.I could really been grateful for those two weeks with him at home as family help was minimal.My mother had a full time job and MIL just came when she felt like it.She seemed to think she could just cuddle the baby then go home.
With the second baby it was a different scenario.DH joined the merchant navy when I was three months pregnant, and promised me he would be home for the birth.How trusting was I.The due date came and went again, no sign of him, despite me begging for him to come home.He would write back and say impossible.I had to have another caesarean and was in hospital for two weeks again, this was 1972.MIL was more helpful this time as she looked after DS1 while I was in hospital but once I got home that was it, she quickly made an exit with some excuse.I rang my own mother in floods of tears, she took one day off work to stay overnight, then away she went.MIL appeared and to be fair, took my toddler DS1 out every day ,bringing him back at his bed time.
DH arrived home two months later and all he did was talk about the ship and the places he had been.I was not interested and ignored him.
It turned out later that he had been ''traumatised'' by DS1's birth and that was his reason for wanting to be as far away as possible!
Yes obviously I have survived but if this was now with paid paternity leave thing might have been different.

Galaxy

Slightly off topic, but for rather boring reasons I was given the statistics of public sector workers in my area who had done the shared maternity leave thing, where male and female can split the allocated leave, so mum does say 6 months and dad 3 months or whatever. This was about 5 years ago but across the whole county only one couple had chosen to share the leave. I thought that was interesting in terms of sharing the role of parenting.

I think a lot of that is probably that the mother needs time to heal (physically and hormonally) before she can be at the stage where the father enters the triangle. In some cases that might be a relatively short space of time, but in others, eg if she has had a c section and/or PND (or anything else that takes recovery time) it can mean that a simple division of the time wouldn't be straightforward.

Also, if the leave has to be for one or other parent, as opposed to both at once, the chances are still high that financially it makes sense for the man's salary to keep coming in. Babies are expensive, so I would imagine that not as many couples could afford to have the man at home as the woman.