DIL here, perspective please with strained relationship with MIL.

This thread is devoting a very familiar, predictable pattern.

Surreysister1466

And what do i owe them given the behaviour ive been dealing with? If they cant bear the speak to truth open and honestly then they shouldnt have said it or behaved the way they have done in the first place. Im sorry but i dont understand your rationale

He didn't say it to you. Maybe that's why he was trying to keep things calm.

It wasn't yours to tell. I bet your husband and FIL were both horrified.

You clearly are confrontational.

Let’s hope this poor chap sees the light, gets a divorce, marries again to somebody less combustible otherwise it’ll be the Markles, Peatys and Beckhams all over again.

Surreysister1466

For context here’s a snapshot of what i got off my chest and explained how hurtful it was to both me and my husband…
Ignored me on my wedding day
Refused to come to our housewarming party because she didnt like we had moved out of town (1hr away)
Caused drama with the first Christmas day we hosted because she didnt like she had to share it with my parents.
Told me i needed to have another baby in case something happens to our son - she knew our history of miscarriages so this one stung in those early weeks postpartum when we were already worried.
Constantly talks bad about my BIL and his girlfriend who she has outright said she is not good enough for him. BIL has said she has similar coversations with them about us.

Then on top of all of that make my life difficult post partum after sweeping things under the rug for years. There becomes a point where you reach your limit and she needed to be told how hurtful she can be after being enabled for years.

What you have posted here might seem unbelievable to some members but I know they do exist.
I’ve had 2 friends who unfortunately inherited mill’s the same as yours. One was actually worse 😥
Just practice not giving her anymore head space.
Given time the new arrangement will be normal.

I think Surreysister that you are still far too angry to think straight about this, whether that anger is deserved or not, so any attempt at seeing your in laws would be a fool hardly idea, not that you really want to right now
But in time you might feel differently and even regret saying some of the things you said, I mean listing everything historically the way you did to throw in her face was not great, and a good reason why your FiL didn’t take your side the way he usually does. I mean it sounds brutal. Right now you still think it was a good idea. So keep away from any kind of contact but your DH should continue to see them with their GC.
Anger often forgives what we regret later.
Am hoping that in time both your MiL and yourself will reach an understanding, but apologies will be needed on both sides.

At first I agreed with you and thought your MIL was being very unreasonable. However the more you post I think it is 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. You sound unreasonable as well.
All this sitting down and speaking honestly, what you expected was an apology, you did not get one as MIl does not accept she is wrong. What had this achieved, absolutly nothing.

The pair of you just do not get along. You do not have to see MIL but if your husband goes to see her at least she is seeing her Grandchild. Its not only about your Mother.
I would love to hear your MIl side of the story, because I get the impression you like to get your own way too.

Silvershadow

If that comment is aimed at me I don’t understand your rationale either. What do you want to achieve?

It wasnt to you, it was to theworriedwell.

But in response to you, i was fine with every 3-4 weeks or when diaries allow. But it wasnt good enough. And unfortunately it is true that if you have a poor relationship with your DIL then this does impact your relationship with your grandchildren. Im fine with my husband taking our son but this arrangement ultimately means visits will be less frequent. Kindness is shown when kindness is received.

I agree readsalot, weekly visits are to much! I had a very close relationship with my lovely Mum . Shortly before I married said said to me " Don't ever think I am one of those mothers that expects to come for lunch every Sunday"
How lucky was I? She lived 20 minutes away from us , never over stepped the mark and I loved her for it! We spent a great deal of time together- happy times. My PIL lived close too and they too were not demanding. We were fortunate, both sets of parents were sensible. Having said that I must admit I too felt more at ease with my Mum than with my MIL . My MIL acknowledged and respected that. None of them expected too much and respected our privacy. I am close to our ' children ' and have tried to follow their example, result - harmony !

Surreysister I think that you and our husband need to discuss each others honest perspective and feelings on this entire mess. Once you have done that even if each if you have heard some hard messages you need as a couple to agree your way forward together. This may or may not involve compromise on both sides to reach a strategy that you are both able to cope with. Whilst discussing your strategy as a couple I suggest you discuss the pros and cons of any ideas; writing them down can help.

Overall whatever you decide the important thing is that it is agreed as a couple with openness and honesty so that resentments towards each other can't fester.

I also think it is worth looking as a couple beyond immediate feelings and actions to longer term aims/wishes etc including for your child

Good luck

You tell us both your H and FIL say MIL is a difficult woman. They have each lived with her for many years- so they are well positioned to form that opinion. They may have developed a pattern of behaviours and reactions accordingly. Eg sympathise with you and be supportive behind her back but not in her presence. They may have adopted a path of least resistance for "a quiet life". If your husband is an only child- MIL was queen bee female in a home with 2 men for many years before your H married you. Thus there would be a seismic change in her dynamic and relationship with her son, whatever the personality of the woman he chose to marry. She now only has one man orbiting around her- FIL.

Pass/Agg behaviour makes people feel confused , frustrated, anxious and emotionally exhausted. It creates an emotional roller coaster where victims can feel gas lighted, manipulated, feelings of insecurity and resentment. You give some examples of this in your post. Once resentment takes hold victims of p/a behaviour either
1) submerge their resentment for a quiet life- this can have adverse impact on health and well being over time
2) can react emotionally on occasion- entirely understandable
3) are confident in themselves, calm and assertive and plan carefully how to address p/Agressor and put their boundaries in place to protect their well being.

Confidence, assertiveness, emotional intelligence, empathy, kindness even when challenged and a calm approach is needed to manage the third option well and all the time. Most therefore lapse into 1) reaction above for the most part, particularly when second reaction fails miserably. Fewer get to 3) successfully and repeatedly.

You tell us H had a conversation with Dad and relayed back to you FIL's explanation MIL was jealous etc. My view is that probably was a mistake on your behalf to relay back hear say from FIL to MIL - but easy to understand why you did if feeling gas lighted and frustrated. But lesson learned.

You tell us it was a joint decision with your H to sit down with you MIL and "clear the air once a for all". So joint responsibility. It backfired as MIL was in denial. As H and FIL describe her as a difficult woman thats hardly surprising as it's the first time you and H have initiated such a conversation. To her, most likely, that sets you both up as an opposing force to her perception of her long held Queen Bee husband and son dynamic. Focus on it helped you get out your feelings and things off your chest, even if a variety of emotions colours you and your H's contributions and not all said perfectly.

The fact that FIL did not back you up is probably not a surprise either if you try to understand he lapsed into his usual 1) reaction - submerging his feelings to protect his ongoing relationship with his wife.

Your husband expected an apology and none came- not a surprise either. However you did receive a text from MIL which I thought was a huge positive step forward for her after her first experience of being 'challenged' by son and DIL - ie when they were 'getting things off their chest once and for all' Emotions running high for all. That must have been very difficult for her if you think about it rationally. She may not emotionally equipped to understand her behaviours and impact on you- but she did make the first move.

You probably will never understand her mind set and behaviours as she portably doesn't understand herself. Neither, from what you tell us has your H or FIL ever been able to assist her understand in all the many years they have lived with her. Thats is a fact of life to accept and live with.

"Damage has been done' to the extent there was one conversation, that backfired, it helped you get things off your chest and since then you have put boundaries in place such that your H takes son to visit his grandparents. Thus you have had 4 months space to heal (?) take stock and have a rest from the p/agg behaviours. Not all of that is 'damage' as some of that is positive.

The ball is now in your court. You can continue as you are- no judgement. Or you could see her text as a somewhat brave and conciliatory move accepting your MIL's limitations and putting firmer boundaries in place for the future to protect your well being.

Whichever path you choose good luck 💐

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LemonJam

You tell us both your H and FIL say MIL is a difficult woman. They have each lived with her for many years- so they are well positioned to form that opinion. They may have developed a pattern of behaviours and reactions accordingly. Eg sympathise with you and be supportive behind her back but not in her presence. They may have adopted a path of least resistance for "a quiet life". If your husband is an only child- MIL was queen bee female in a home with 2 men for many years before your H married you. Thus there would be a seismic change in her dynamic and relationship with her son, whatever the personality of the woman he chose to marry. She now only has one man orbiting around her- FIL.

Pass/Agg behaviour makes people feel confused , frustrated, anxious and emotionally exhausted. It creates an emotional roller coaster where victims can feel gas lighted, manipulated, feelings of insecurity and resentment. You give some examples of this in your post. Once resentment takes hold victims of p/a behaviour either
1) submerge their resentment for a quiet life- this can have adverse impact on health and well being over time
2) can react emotionally on occasion- entirely understandable
3) are confident in themselves, calm and assertive and plan carefully how to address p/Agressor and put their boundaries in place to protect their well being.

Confidence, assertiveness, emotional intelligence, empathy, kindness even when challenged and a calm approach is needed to manage the third option well and all the time. Most therefore lapse into 1) reaction above for the most part, particularly when second reaction fails miserably. Fewer get to 3) successfully and repeatedly.

You tell us H had a conversation with Dad and relayed back to you FIL's explanation MIL was jealous etc. My view is that probably was a mistake on your behalf to relay back hear say from FIL to MIL - but easy to understand why you did if feeling gas lighted and frustrated. But lesson learned.

You tell us it was a joint decision with your H to sit down with you MIL and "clear the air once a for all". So joint responsibility. It backfired as MIL was in denial. As H and FIL describe her as a difficult woman thats hardly surprising as it's the first time you and H have initiated such a conversation. To her, most likely, that sets you both up as an opposing force to her perception of her long held Queen Bee husband and son dynamic. Focus on it helped you get out your feelings and things off your chest, even if a variety of emotions colours you and your H's contributions and not all said perfectly.

The fact that FIL did not back you up is probably not a surprise either if you try to understand he lapsed into his usual 1) reaction - submerging his feelings to protect his ongoing relationship with his wife.

Your husband expected an apology and none came- not a surprise either. However you did receive a text from MIL which I thought was a huge positive step forward for her after her first experience of being 'challenged' by son and DIL - ie when they were 'getting things off their chest once and for all' Emotions running high for all. That must have been very difficult for her if you think about it rationally. She may not emotionally equipped to understand her behaviours and impact on you- but she did make the first move.

You probably will never understand her mind set and behaviours as she portably doesn't understand herself. Neither, from what you tell us has your H or FIL ever been able to assist her understand in all the many years they have lived with her. Thats is a fact of life to accept and live with.

"Damage has been done' to the extent there was one conversation, that backfired, it helped you get things off your chest and since then you have put boundaries in place such that your H takes son to visit his grandparents. Thus you have had 4 months space to heal (?) take stock and have a rest from the p/agg behaviours. Not all of that is 'damage' as some of that is positive.

The ball is now in your court. You can continue as you are- no judgement. Or you could see her text as a somewhat brave and conciliatory move accepting your MIL's limitations and putting firmer boundaries in place for the future to protect your well being.

Whichever path you choose good luck 💐

Youve hit the nail on the head with your queen bee analysis i think. My husband said that our ‘sit down talk’ was the first time that he knows of that her behaviour has been challenged. Husband, FIL & BIL never used to say anything when they all lived together and followed their dads lead which was it will blow over. Like you say, i think he just wants an easy life. He described growing up, the household atmosphere was dictated by MILs mood and a lot of the time they were walking on eggshells.

But yes, i think the fact that she has always been the only woman in their lives (both PILS have no siblings) she may feel like me and my SIL as a threat which explains her dislike towards SIL too.

I admit, i can be headstrong and when i feel like somebody has wronged me like she has it is very difficult for me too get past it. Ive tried my best over the years but treating a woman poorly, as a woman herself, who has just had a baby was the final straw. Right now im focusing on my new family and my health, maybe there will be reconciliation in the future, but now right now.

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Shelflife

I agree readsalot, weekly visits are to much! I had a very close relationship with my lovely Mum . Shortly before I married said said to me " Don't ever think I am one of those mothers that expects to come for lunch every Sunday"
How lucky was I? She lived 20 minutes away from us , never over stepped the mark and I loved her for it! We spent a great deal of time together- happy times. My PIL lived close too and they too were not demanding. We were fortunate, both sets of parents were sensible. Having said that I must admit I too felt more at ease with my Mum than with my MIL . My MIL acknowledged and respected that. None of them expected too much and respected our privacy. I am close to our ' children ' and have tried to follow their example, result - harmony !

This sounds like a dream, you are very lucky.

Lemonjam speaks a lot of sense. I think you have to play the long game here as your son may benefit from his grandmother's attention as he grows up.

My late MIL was a "difficult woman" and it took me years to get used to her ways, particularly as my own mother died quite young and was a completely different personality to my MIL.

My MIL was beyond excited when I gave birth to her first grandchild, even more so as it was a boy! She couldn't keep away from our house in the early months and it became overwhelming but I could never have told her as it would have hurt her feelings so much. Over the years, I grew used to her ways and my son and her became very close. As a mother yourself, you must now appreciate how your MIL feels about your child. She may be different from your own mother but her feelings will be similar. I think you should consider burying the hatchet for the sake of your child. It could reap benefits in the long term.

@worriedwell “He didn't say it to you. Maybe that's why he was trying to keep things calm.

It wasn't yours to tell. I bet your husband and FIL were both horrified.

You clearly are confrontational.”

I wasn’t naive, and I wasn’t stirring. I was dealing with behaviour that was already impacting us and had already been explained within the family. Adults are allowed to address uncomfortable truths rather than tiptoe around them.

Babies are incredibly portable, limiting visiting time because if his naps and feeds is a pathetic excuse. They’ll feed anywhere and sleep anywhere, if you can be bothered to get them used to it.

I’m not surprised your MIL is disappointed, if all you’re grumbling about is that she hoped to see you all a bit more than YOU wanted.

You criticise your mother in law for every perceived grievance hoarded over fifteen years, and her husband, to your astonishment, supported her;. You are apparently astonished that she won't apologise to you.

You have excluded her from seeing her grandson as part of a family or family gatherings

Your mother apparently raised you to 'stand up for myself'

She obviously did not teach you manners.

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Very surprised that anyone - OP or other posters- would think that a husband would not support his wife when she was under attack by another family member.

It really was something about perceived importance and entitlement.

eazybee

You criticise your mother in law for every perceived grievance hoarded over fifteen years, and her husband, to your astonishment, supported her;. You are apparently astonished that she won't apologise to you.

You have excluded her from seeing her grandson as part of a family or family gatherings

Your mother apparently raised you to 'stand up for myself'

She obviously did not teach you manners.

You’ve made several assumptions there that don’t reflect what I actually wrote.

Describing a pattern to explain context isn’t “hoarding grievances”. Stepping back from a situation that was causing stress isn’t exclusion or punishment. She is free to see her grandson.

Standing up for myself and having manners are not mutually exclusive, even if that idea makes some people uncomfortable. Confusing politeness with silence is a fairly outdated expectation.

I suspect we’re responding from very different personal reference points.

sparkle1234 - once a week is probably way too often.

Just saying!

I said I am earlier post that I had a daughter in law like you,I take it back, you're in another league lady...your mother in law is better off without you in her life

Rafichagran, feels like you are doing the goading here. This response is exactly why boundaries exist. I’ll leave it there.

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