That man Dawkins

And the same goes for religious people too. So it really isn't nice to talk about militancy when it's just normal people talking.

Lilygran - what are you hoping to achieve? Do you think you are going to convert any of us? We just don't believe what you believe. We don't object to your believing anything you like - do you object to our not believing?

Just putting a different point of view, flying the flag for faith, that's all.

Wasn't it Mark Twain who said "Faith is believing what you know ain't so"?

Lilygran, what does 'flying the flag for the faith' mean? I still don't see what you are trying to achieve. You start a discussion and then get personal when people put their own point of view. I object to being called 'militant' - it is a very pejorative term. Nobody has made any personal comments about you or your right to hold your beliefs.

Jogging for Jesus or skatin' for Satan.

lily I am not sure if you would class me to be militant but if someone challenges my beliefs and values I will stand up for them and put my point of view forward robustly. I think that is what you are doing too..do you consider yourself a militant Christian? If so I am a militant atheist

Nanaej - I don't think anybody was challenging Lilygran's right to hold any beliefs she wants. She started this thread. I don't know what she expects us to say - we don't share her beliefs and that is that. No doubt she doesn't share the beliefs of Muslims, Hindus or Buddhists. She is entitled to say she doesn't share those beliefs and nobody would accuse her of being militant.

As ever, there is a problem defining terms. What do you mean by 'Militant Atheist' ? I found the definition I quoted on Urban Dictionary. I don't think it is pejorative. Just a definition of of a person who holds a particular set of beliefs and is is prepared to challenge those who disagree. Until we agree on what is meant by terms there will be disagreement and misunderstanding as people are arguing / discussing from a position which attributes ideas and points of view which are not necessarily held by those with whom they are having the conversation.

As I remarked on a previous thread, the study of Bultmann would be productive.

It depends which dictionary you use. Mine defines 'militant' as being prepared to use vigorous or extreme means to achieve an end, usually political, but also to mean aggressive and combative.
I don't think anybody here has been agressive - we have just stated our sincerely held beliefs that there is no supernatural being.

Perhaps we could agree terms before any further debate?

Good idea. I am not sure I have anything more to say about religion, though. It doesn't seem to matter how often we repeat that we are not critical of individual believers but just don't share their beliefs. I don't want to convert anyone to atheism, and I am very sure nobody will turn me into a believer, so it is all beginning to feel a bit pointless.

MiceElf the online Urban Dictionary veers more towards Greatnan's definition of being militant, using words like hostile, resorting to verbal or physical attacks. Militant atheism is defined as being hostile to religion and says it should not be respected but attacked. Confused about the definition you have quoted? I can't find anywhere where it says militant atheism is just about being prepared to challenge those who disagree.

Can we reach an agreement that whether or not some Gransnetters are atheists, none are militant in terms of being hostile, prepared to attack, or to propagate such beliefs to the masses as a doctrine? Hell's bells....I can only muster up the energy to make a cup of tea these days!

When, there is a confusion of definition. Militant is indeed as Great nan defined it. Militant Atheism is a term like Guardian Reader which is different from 'Guardian' and 'Reader'. I've just flicked on to my Google search and cannot find where the definition came from, I thought it was Urban Dictionary. But I may be wrong. There is a site called Conservapedia which may be where I found it. Whatever we mean by these terms, I don't get the impression that anyone using this term did it in a hostile or combative way. It seems to me to be just a description of those who vehemently state their position.

Words are emotive. Each word we use carries resonances far beyond dictionary definitions, and clearly the use of those words touches some nerves. I'm sure that no one here wishes to hurt or to suggest malign motives to those who use words which have triggered responses in the reader which were not intended by the writer.

And as for a cup of tea. For me it's something far stronger. Sharing wine for me is central to what I believe.

Ah, now you're talking - cup of tea coming up!

One sugar for me!

Conservapaedia - an American conservative, Christian website, which describes militant atheism:

'Militant atheism which continues to suppress and oppress religious believers today (see also: Atheism and communism).'

Huh?!

Just checked again. It was definitely Urban Dictionary. First definition. The rest are really quite funny. Read them.

You can, if you want, buy Militant Atheist mugs. And if you go to The Ship of Fools website you can buy mugs and other Christian tat which is much more mocking of the excesses of some aspects of religious practice than you will find here. Go look.

Can you put a link to the page you are reading, please, MiceElf. I've just read both militant and militant atheism on Urban Dictionary, and neither contains the reference you gave to a 'person who holds a particular set of beliefs and is prepared to challenge those who disagree.' They use words like attack, hostile, combative. Totally confused

It's in the section called Gadgets for God.

Yes, been introduced to Ship of Fools previously. Can't think why I'd want a militant atheist mug? Are you reading us atheists right MiceElf? I'm not interested in hostility towards those who believe in their god, nor do I want to promote my atheism to anyone. Just have intelligent debate. Live and let live

I'm a bit tech challenged but at the bar at the top of the page is written

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?terms=Militant%20Atheist

But do look at The Ship. We aren't all po faced, humourless God botherers.

Respect When! I think there's some cross posting going on here. I do but jest.

Enjoy your sober cuppa. Cheers!