Is Islam a religion of love and peace?

I also know Muslims and worked with some and they don't seem to me to be very different from the rest of us.

What I want to know, is why hasn't our "Middle East Peace Envoy" if this is still one of his many hats, been dispatched to smooth the troubled waters. I know he's busy acquiring properties left right and centre at the moment, but do believe he said something like felt the "hand or history/God on his shoulder", possibly both, so should be able to use his miraculous powers to sort something out! After all he and his mate Bush were responsible for creating a whole load of bad feeling in the Arab world in the first place.

baNANA Hand of history and he was talking about Northern Ireland, where, to be fair, he achieved something worthwhile (together with others).

The few worthwhile things achieved by Blair are heavily outweighed by the travesties how many Iraqi people lost their lives during the occupation, 100,000? or more, not to mention our soldiers. He was George Bush's lapdog, he got into bed with a very right wing government who Labour should have been politically at odds with and dragged us into an illegal war, which Muslims now use against us. I'm with Desmond Tutu he should go on trial.

Middle East Peace Envoy Ha!, apparently he's not wanted in this capacity by many Arabs, funny that!

I and my working colleagues, before retirement, received the hospiility of Muslims and visited mosques in a spirit of learning and integrating more, both professionally and in the commnities we worked and live in. When visiting one mosque at Christmas time, we were treated to mince pies and wished a Happy Christmas. This mosque was named by police as a source of recruitment for training young asian men to become terrorists. The elders were not aware of these alleged goings on, and came out in force to say 'not in our name.' the community was in uproar, and young men were held in Cat A custody, only to be released weeks later without charge. They sued the police for wrongful arrest. There was no community backlash because the elders advised them to keep the peace.

We held fund-raising events for the victims of the Kashmir earthquake, and presented this mosque with a cheque for £600, which was used towards medicines, hats, socks and blankets. A probation colleague drove through Kashmir villages with a Landrover stocked with supplies, risking her own life from bandits. She collected more money by having collection tins in her husband's greengrocery shop. They were stolen by white youths, who were taped on CCTV. They were not caught, and the community filled the collection tins again.

The Muslims I have known well give a percentage of their income for the less well off, ensure their neighbour has food, and look after their old people. They don't want war and are tolerant of other religions.

It puzzles me to think of ex-pat communities in countries like Spain, where there is no attempt to integrate and no issue about people holding to their own beliefs. Because we know about 'western' religions in general, there is a level of trust, but it seems Islam is seen as threatening to our way of life. It isn't. It's the fanatics and terrorists who threaten our safety, the police who manufacture false evidence and ignore crime done to minority ethnic groups, and the politicians who spin stories for their own ends. There so much damaging propaganda circulating, and now we are being fed stories about this film, but I bet we don't know the truth.

Thank you,*when*, I can't add anything but appreciate what you have written.

baNANA You don't have to tell me. I was on the streets marching and took along Mr absent who had never been on a protest march before. The last timer
was my mother's 92nd birthday and I explained why we were going to march and that I had organised a plate of sandwiches, some hot soup and tea in Thermoses for her. "Dear God, my dear," she said. "I hope there isn't a war." If we'd had a wheelchair, she would have been there too.

I think so much goes back to "9/11". Of course, that was a terrible thing. I was surprised by how upset I was when flying into New York some while later by the gap where the twin towers used to be. But the US and, indeed, the West, have seen that as a seminal and defining event. So much these days is seen in the light of that day – a man with brown skin and a full beard boarding a plane is regarded with suspicion. France has outlawed facial coverings (clearly a law directed at Moslem women not protesters who wear masks). Them and us has become the norm.

Yes, the 9/11 bombers got what they wanted didn't they? Worldwide fear, suspicion, wars, and a widening gap between Muslims and the rest. Who knows what is going to be the result of the Middle East instability, but it is pretty certain it won't be good for women, minorities, and personal freedom.

Of course, when talking about Islam it is easy to forget that divisions within that faith - sunni, shia, etc can be every bit as wide as the Islam/Christian divide.

Which all leaves me glad to be free of religious ties myself.

Sometimes I wonder if we hadn't gone into Iraq when we did, maybe Sadam would have been deposed when the Arab Spring gained momentum and spread to the rest of the Arab world. I think it would have been far preferable for the people of Iraq to have determined their own fate rather than have America/UK and allies sticking their oar in.

Very good essay on that awful film, and why we should not let it and the reaction to it change our belief in freedom of speech, but giving a reason why it should be suppressed.

Sorry. That isn't clear. I mean why the film should be suppressed, not freedom of speech.

Very measured, sensible article bags

when I've just caught up - great post.

Read the essay - it is absolutely right. We of all people should know that appeasement is the road to disaster.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Zombie thread

Prior to retirement I worked with many Moslems, had two direct line managers who were Muslims, one of whom is married to an English woman, who hasn’t converted. In their home they celebrate all Muslim and Christian holy days and their son is being brought up with knowledge of both faiths.

In my limited experience Islam can be about love and peace and I very much liked my Muslim colleagues and bosses, I found them kind and tolerant and willing to talk openly about their beliefs.

What’s with all these zombie threads at the moment?

whenim64

I and my working colleagues, before retirement, received the hospiility of Muslims and visited mosques in a spirit of learning and integrating more, both professionally and in the commnities we worked and live in. When visiting one mosque at Christmas time, we were treated to mince pies and wished a Happy Christmas. This mosque was named by police as a source of recruitment for training young asian men to become terrorists. The elders were not aware of these alleged goings on, and came out in force to say 'not in our name.' the community was in uproar, and young men were held in Cat A custody, only to be released weeks later without charge. They sued the police for wrongful arrest. There was no community backlash because the elders advised them to keep the peace.

We held fund-raising events for the victims of the Kashmir earthquake, and presented this mosque with a cheque for £600, which was used towards medicines, hats, socks and blankets. A probation colleague drove through Kashmir villages with a Landrover stocked with supplies, risking her own life from bandits. She collected more money by having collection tins in her husband's greengrocery shop. They were stolen by white youths, who were taped on CCTV. They were not caught, and the community filled the collection tins again.

The Muslims I have known well give a percentage of their income for the less well off, ensure their neighbour has food, and look after their old people. They don't want war and are tolerant of other religions.

It puzzles me to think of ex-pat communities in countries like Spain, where there is no attempt to integrate and no issue about people holding to their own beliefs. Because we know about 'western' religions in general, there is a level of trust, but it seems Islam is seen as threatening to our way of life. It isn't. It's the fanatics and terrorists who threaten our safety, the police who manufacture false evidence and ignore crime done to minority ethnic groups, and the politicians who spin stories for their own ends. There so much damaging propaganda circulating, and now we are being fed stories about this film, but I bet we don't know the truth.

🫶🫶👏👏👏👏

Oreo

What’s with all these zombie threads at the moment?

Sorry if I’m being dim, what’s a “zombie” thread please?

The thread is 14!!! years old.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

So they say, but actions speak louder than words !

What is a zombie thread??
Am just finding my way around this site and all the initials used, DD, GC, etc., and now I have come across this term.
Is quite confusing.