Is Islam a religion of love and peace?

I think there are terrible human rights abuses throughout the world, and definitely many that are committed in the name of religion. Most are committed where strict patriarchal constructs are in place so unsurprisingly human rights abuses against women figure large.
But most Muslims I live beside and have worked with as well as befriending are just ordinary law abiding people no different to you or I and would hate to imply that they are to be ‘othered’ simply because of a Islamic extremists whom they are as much against as we are.
Patriarchal constructs disguised as religion are everywhere, let us not forget the evangelists in the US where gay people are sent to correction facilities and women are kept at home and can be prevented from voting. It the Catholic laundries in Ireland with graveyards for young mothers and babies that died due to a lack of care were kept secret for decades. Nor should we forget the abuse of children by Catholic priests covered up for decades.
Yet ordinary Christians are nothing like that.
There is such a thing as getting things in perspective and using a bit of balance here.

Galaxy

I don't have to show anything. Anyone is free to comment on any subject as long as they remain within the guidelines.

You see I agree with Galaxy, I do not need to show anything least of all humility whatever that means in this context to man made constructs. I certainly didn't to the religion I was brought up in, Catholicism, when I became aware of the dark history not to mention more recently the concealment of crimes committed. Imo no religion or for that matter political ideology should be above criticism although I sometimes feel that some would enshrine Islam as one that must not be criticised, spuriously conflating it with racism. We must always call out the unacceptable. I think it is also very incumbent for those brought up in a certain faith, whatever it may be, to do that.

I've never studied theology, but the edicts quoted from the Quran in this thread are shockingly extreme and belong to a bygone age or should. Most civilised people are revolted by what was considered normal in Medieval times and we do know that in some strict Muslim cultures still suppress and murder for the most minor of transgressions and show little tolerance towards those of a different faith. One only had to read about the atrocities committed against those poor Yazidi girls and women to know what wickedness is still practised.

My late mother persuaded me when I was at my most critical about the Catholic church, that there are still many good people amongst their numbers, so that is what I believe about most religions and their followers and I'm sure that there is a majority in the Muslim faith who would shun the dark side of their religion as indeed most Christians do about previous horrors committed by a corrupt hierarchy.

Nannee49

Well said Galaxy and perhaps you would like to expand your POV sixandahalf? I'm struggling to understand why humility is in order when discussing a belief system that in it's purest interpretation states we are lesser because we are women.

I agree, Nannee49, and here are some of the consequences of Islamic ideology for women in Muslim countries.

This 2016 research paper on sciencedirect.com reports that:

‘discrimination against women is more pronounced in countries where Islam is the source of legislation’.
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0939362516300796

It said:

// In 2013, the Pew Research Center conducted a global survey in 39 Muslim-majority countries …The results show that 85% of Muslims believe that wives should always be subservient to and obey their husbands.//

//In a survey from the University of Michigan’s Institute for Social Research … [i]n Iraq, Pakistan and Egypt, only 27%, 22%, and 14% of the respondents respectively agreed that women should be permitted to decide for themselves what to wear.//

//[In Muslim-majority countries] girls and women are discriminated against in the education system and the labor market, as well as in electoral participation//

According to Dr David Wood, an expert on Islam, the World Economic Forum 2020 Gender Gap Index, which ranks countries according to the size of the economic, education, health and political gaps between men and women, shows that 9 of the 10 worst countries for women in the world are Muslim-majority countries.
youtube.com/shorts/t0-hQ7xV4YA?si=A4f3b1B12GmEFeMH

Mohammed married a six-year-old. Sura 33.21 of the Qur’an says that Mohammed is the pattern of conduct for believers. Consequently child marriage is practised in some Islamic countries, such as Niger, South Sudan and Afghanistan.
www.statista.com/statistics/1226532/countries-with-the-highest-child-marriage-rate/

According to Wikipedia, honour killings are disproportionately prevalent in regions with high Muslim populations, and among emigrants from these areas in Europe.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing

As Mohammed’s wife Aisha said (speaking of domestic violence), ‘I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women.’ (Sahih al-Bukhari 5825)

All religions really are not the same, especially if you are a woman.

Thanks, Oreo, and I agree that people do seem reluctant to discuss radical Islam. I think there is a feeling that it would be racist. But it’s not racist to discuss a belief system.

I also agree that it makes no sense to say that Christianity is just as bad.

Radical Muslims oppress women, hate Jews, and aim to subjugate the world to Islam. Radical Christians are especially loving and forgiving.

Evils done in the name of Christianity are done in spite of the teachings of the Bible, not because of them. This is not true of Islam, the Qur’an and the hadith.

Skye17

Thanks, Oreo, and I agree that people do seem reluctant to discuss radical Islam. I think there is a feeling that it would be racist. But it’s not racist to discuss a belief system.

I also agree that it makes no sense to say that Christianity is just as bad.

Radical Muslims oppress women, hate Jews, and aim to subjugate the world to Islam. Radical Christians are especially loving and forgiving.

Evils done in the name of Christianity are done in spite of the teachings of the Bible, not because of them. This is not true of Islam, the Qur’an and the hadith.

It isn’t racist to discuss belief systems but we are discussing extremism/radicalisation which have no place in ordinary day to day belief systems. One thing, am not sure what you mean when you say radical Christianity is more loving and forgiving. Could you elaborate on that ?
In my experience radical Christians like the evangelists in the US are far from more loving and forgiving with gay people forced to be ‘corrected’ and women having to stay at home and pressurised not to vote, and that is just the tip of the iceberg, they are presently heavily involved with the far right politics taking such a toll on ordinary people in the US.
Would appreciate you clearing this up.

Diabolical things have been done in the name of all the worlds religions.

There is nothing to choose between them in the peace stakes.

There are of course cults/off shoots that are more warlike/peaceful than others.

But they are all much the same if you look at how they have behaved/changed throughout history.

But they are all much the same if you look at how they have behaved/changed throughout history.

And right now?

Whitewavemark2

Diabolical things have been done in the name of all the worlds religions.

There is nothing to choose between them in the peace stakes.

There are of course cults/off shoots that are more warlike/peaceful than others.

But they are all much the same if you look at how they have behaved/changed throughout history.

I agree with this.

Whitewavemark2

Diabolical things have been done in the name of all the worlds religions.

There is nothing to choose between them in the peace stakes.

There are of course cults/off shoots that are more warlike/peaceful than others.

But they are all much the same if you look at how they have behaved/changed throughout history.

In the main, most religions do not advocate extremist views now but some Islamists still do so and become violent extremists.

fancythat

^But they are all much the same if you look at how they have behaved/changed throughout history.^

And right now?

And right now it’s Islamist extremism as they want a caliphate.

Yes it's the right now!

Show me another religion that advocates all of the examples set out, stoning, burning people, raping, justified murder against infidels, apostates. We're not talking the Middle Ages here. Even Ian Paisley in his hate filled rants didn't suggest those extremes.

Not to mention that some young men who became terrorists were influenced by radical Imams. Are there any such equivalent priests, rabbis who would stand up in a pulpit today to advocate acts of violence towards those who are not of their faith?

Those that keep saying all religions are the same etc etc please link to the laws/commandments or other teachings for followers of other religions that state the same as those of Islam. As I said upthread confusing the bad behaviour of people who self identify into a religion with the 'instructions' of that religion is illogical. Nowhere, as far as I'm aware, is rape condoned nay encouraged in the teachings of any other religion, just as one example.
Historical atrocities cannot be used to excuse current atrocities or where does it all end?

What I find strange us the compulsion to refer to other religions, which incidentally seems almost exclusively one-sided in its defence of Islam.

So a post querying a basic tenet of Islam is immediately met with “Christianity is just as bad” whereas a query about Christianity will very rarely if ever be met with the immediate rejoinder of “Islam is just as bad”.

If a belief system, it’s practice and outcomes are to be evaluated dispassionately then it must be on its own basis. Reference to other religions, specially historically, simply obscures the current reality of the religion being discussed and smoky serves as a distraction or a deliberate smokescreen.

I spent a year exploring different religions to see if I could find one to which I could adhere. Comparisons were futile. Each one needed to evaluated on its own merits and shortcomings.

The Islamic worldview is unique in itself as is its moral code.

serves as a smokescreen

I lived in the Middle East for many years and I found the majority of the people were kind, generous and deeply religious and respectful of other faiths. It’s the minority just as it cannot be said that all catholic priests and clergy are paedophiles and all Americans shoot up schools etc.etc. Anyone who thinks differently needs educating.

Newatthis

I lived in the Middle East for many years and I found the majority of the people were kind, generous and deeply religious and respectful of other faiths. It’s the minority just as it cannot be said that all catholic priests and clergy are paedophiles and all Americans shoot up schools etc.etc. Anyone who thinks differently needs educating.

Are people saying otherwise? I thought the context of this thread was examining the written tenets of Islam, some of which decidedly do not fall under 'love and peace'. What do you think about the instruction that it's fine to rape certain women? Or that apostates should be killed?

I think the awful things that Islamic extremists say and do cannot be ignored but do let’s remember that many Muslims, as in Iran, are fighting tooth and nail against this.
It is not how the majority of Muslims want to live.
Extremists might want a caliphate but is just a lot of BS because the majority don’t want a bar of it.
But making it sound as if Islamic extremists are on every street corner does make for good copy and there is one born every minute who will believe this.

Thank you Newatthis and Fallingstar.
....just so.

I guess it’s almost impossible to have a discussion about the tenets of a faith in a dispassionate way.

People always veer off into their own personal experiences and preferences/prejudices and reduce the discussion to what they personally feel.

I guess it’s almost impossible to have a discussion about the tenets of a faith in a dispassionate way.

It's mystifying why people can't separate the tenets of the faith which is what is being discussed from the followers who may or may not accept them all.

Yet some of those same people have no problem telling us they can separate out Israel from Israelis and Jews, and to condemn the former is not to condemn the latter.

As a humanist I always had an historic overview of the worlds religions.

All the major religions have a patriarchy structure, evidenced by lack of female autonomy, violence and unequal rights.

Women have historically and still are limited to access of leadership, have strict social codes, including dress codes, which are used to justify subordination of women.

In the Christian, Islam and Jewish religion, Eve has traditionally been blamed for the fall of man, and thus become the template for viewing women as at the best inferior, and at worse evil - witches were killed by the hundreds.

Where women have struggled and won a degree of freedom, it has been done so not as a result of greater religious freedom at the outset, but initially in the social/political world, which in turn penetrated the seat of the religion.
It is no coincidence that where liberal democracy persists, womens rights have been more easily won.

Conversely in countries that are not democratic, we find the suppression of women’s right alive and kicking.

The only exception are the two socialist countries, Russia where female equality has been deeply embedded is the socialist system, and China where women’s equality has been actively pursued by the Chinese government in a traditionally heavily patriarchal society.

And I would like to add it is no coincidence that where the Christian right - notably in the USA, there is a move to reduce women’s rights.

Anyone who downplays how many millions of people were murdered across generations directly due to Christianity or Islam is either racist or willfully ignores history.

Yeah we are all racist. Does anyone think that works anymore.