Is Islam a religion of love and peace?

Galaxy

I tend to deal in facts rather than wishes as to what might be.

Fair enough. Since 1990, as a starting point, tens of thousands of Muslims were slaughtered by Christians in an attempt at ethnic cleansing in former Yugoslavia. Approximately 1-1.5 million opposing Christians have been slaughtered in Rwanda and every day Muslims and Jewish people are still slaughtering each other in the ME.
As I said, I tend to look at the global picture where the virtues of one religion over another are concerned. Those are just 3 very obvious examples. As you will know, there are countless others going back through history. My conclusion is that they are all as bad as each other and have done immeasurable harm to humanity.
I expect if I had the time to go back through the papers, there would probably be 100 racially motivated murders of Muslims by people of other religions since 2001 in the UK. Not sure whether anyone has collated that information though, because it doesn’t fit with the current agenda.

Have a good afternoon.

In the UK maybe. Worldwide, not the case. I hadn’t realised this thread only applied to the uk but thought it was referring to Islam everywhere?

Sorry, last post addressed to Oreo in respect of this comment

“Deaths due to Islamist extremists dwarf by far any other similar kinds of killings”

Yes I was talking specifically about terrorism in the UK, but I did then expand my searches to Europe in terms of terrorism and there was a similar disparity between attacks linked to Islam and terrorism linking to Hinduism.

Islamist extremists worldwide murder as many as they possibly can.
In the UK we have had so many attacks I have lost count.
Jews and Christians here don’t murder anyone due to having a different religion thankfully.

Ok. I Thought the thread was about Islam, full stop and couldn’t understand why the OP was highlighting just one religion when, far as I’m concerned, they’re all as bad as each other. Maybe not on paper but actions speak louder than words and there have been appalling actions by most organised religions for millenia, which continue around the world today.
I’ll butt out now 😁

But the topic was “Is Islam a religion of love and peace”.

Basgetti seems to be only able to focus on Christianity under a guise of religion in general.

Compare and contrast can be helpful in some discussions but really has no relevance to a query about one particular religion.

In much the same way that a query such as “Do vegetarians wear leather shoes!” is not answered by saying “ Meat eaters have bought the vast majority of leather shoes.”

It’s just a nonsensical, illogical way to explore belief and ethics,

Religion, any religion take your pick, has forever been the major source of violent conflict and oppression throughout the world. We could well do without it.

Thanks Sky17 for the info about the Quran, those passages explain a lot!

I could ask the same question in the OP about Christianity.

Millions of people enslaved and murdered all over the globe since before the Crusades and after. The American Christian right is as hateful as it gets. The truth is that organized religion in general has killed as many or more human beings than disease. Perhaps is simply a social disease.

Well yes you could. In another thread about Christianity.

Why is it that people are so reluctant to discuss Islam?

But people are discussing it here.
And by bringing in other faiths, the question has expanded to consider, 'Is it religion itself that is at fault, if fault there is?'
Because as far as I can see, 'fault' is being emphasised.
Simply giving a more universal context.

Simply shying away from the specific question.

People aren’t reluctant to discuss Islam. People are reluctant to participate in false moral superiority and hypocrisy. Honest conversation about violence linked to one religion can’t be had without the acknowledgement that religion in general is murderous. Violence and the major religions go hand in hand. Violence is the vector by which the major religions are spread. It’s perfectly fine to acknowledge that Islam is no exception, just like Christianity. Two peas in a murderous pod.

People don’t seem to be able to purely discuss Islam, not a couple of posters on here have managed to do that without dragging another religion in or wanting to talk about religion in general.

One poster quoted from the Koran without reference to any other religion. Several openings for discussion there were f orncipke and practice and opportunity to counter with other quotes that shed a different light.

That’s a discussion. A discussion about what was raised in the post.

Too difficult a question to be explored honestly and rationally obviously, hence the veering off to let’s talk about other religions.

People are reluctant to discuss radical Islam, have never understood why.Because they somehow think ( wrongly) it would be racist?

Those extremists who take the Quran literally and kill and torture in its name should be spoken about, and loudly.
They have given Islam a bad name and do horrendous things all round the world including in Muslim countries.

Those who say that Christianity is the same or just as bad blah blah are very wrong and also glossing over the fact that radical Islam is the curse of the modern world.
Their awful deeds affect everyone of every religion and none.
Peace loving Muslims must hate them.

Well said BlessedArt.

Does being a woman affect your view of Islam?

For me, it certainly does.

It was bad enough living under the strictures of the Catholic church when was I was too young to know any better, but following the harsh misogynistic tenets of Islam as laid out in the unequivocal teachings of the Q'uran - thanks again Skye17 for your post quoting these upthread - would be impossible for me to follow as a woman.

Nannee49

Does being a woman affect your view of Islam?

For me, it certainly does.

It was bad enough living under the strictures of the Catholic church when was I was too young to know any better, but following the harsh misogynistic tenets of Islam as laid out in the unequivocal teachings of the Q'uran - thanks again Skye17 for your post quoting these upthread - would be impossible for me to follow as a woman.

Yes I agree, not only how women are viewed but also gay people, apostates and people of other faiths.

In my opinion the teachings of Jesus Christ are very different from those of Mohammed from the extracts set out by Skye17. Jesus was all about tolerance and forgiveness and those messages were lost in a man made hierarchy set up for his followers created during the First Council of Nicaea in the 3rd Century . The essence of his preaching was skewed to fit a man made agenda that manifested over the centuries to be all about control, guilt and punishment, similar to the very worst of fundamental Islam. Jesus Christ has been so misrepresented by the religion that was set up in his name, his teachings weren't vengeful.

Before Christianity reached its Zenith of awfulness during the Spanish Inquisition, peaceful Jews and Muslims lived side by side in Spain enhancing communities with their knowledge of philosophy, mathematics, architecture then they were expelled by Christian bigotry. Cordoba in Spain was a wonderful example of their coexistence prior to the Inquisition took hold. The influence of Muslim architecture so evident in southern Spain is one of the most interesting facets of that country.

Now it seems Muslim fundamentalists want to go down the well trodden path of extreme intolerance as displayed by the Catholic Church during the Middle Ages. Proselytising whether it be religion or a political movement is the absolute pits imo and should be consigned to a bin where it belongs.

Basgetti

Skye17

I know this is a zombie thread. But seeing as it came up, here's an answer to the OP.

Here are some of the teachings from the Islamic sources, which I think show that Islam is not a religion of love and peace.

1. Non-Muslims
Violently subjugate unbelievers to Islam.
- Qur’an Sura 9.29, Sura 4.89

Sahih Bukhari 1.2.24
//Allah's apostle [Mohammed] said: I have been ordered to fight against people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's apostle …//

(There are some more peaceful teachings in the Qur’an, but these are abrogated, or superseded, by later non-peaceful teachings.)

//Verily, Allah does not love the unbelievers [those who do not believe in Islam].//
- Surah Ali Imran 3:32

2. Jews and Christians are to be treated as second-class citizens (dhimmis)
//Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book [Jews and Christians], until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.//
- Sura 9.29

3. Jihad
Those who die in jihad [‘a struggle or fight against the enemies of Islam’] are assured of salvation. (Many interpret this to include dying in terrorist acts.)
- Sura 61.10-12, Sura 4.74

As far as I know no one else is assured of salvation in Islam. Mohammed said that he was not certain of it. So if a young man feels he has led a sinful life and is unlikely to be able to do enough good deeds to outweigh his sins, the only way he can certainly avoid hell according to Islam is by taking part in jihad.

4. Apostates
Kill anyone who leaves Islam.
- Sahih Al-Bukharivolume 9, book 84, no. 57

5. Women
Women are spiritually inferior and intellectually deficient.
- Sahih Muslim number 142, Sahih Al-Bukhari number 2658

It is permissible to rape women you have captured in war.
- Sura 23.1-6, 70.22-30

6. Marriage
Beat wives from whom you fear disobedience into submission.
- Sura 4.34

Child marriage
Sahih Muslim 3480 (also 3482):
//It was narrated that Aisha said: 'The Prophet married me when I was six years old and consummated the marriage with me when I was nine years old.'//
We know from other sources that Aisha had not reached puberty at the time that Mohammed consummated the marriage. (Also that Aisha was his favourite wife.) Mohammed was 50 at the time of the marriage.

7. Gay sex
Throw people who have gay sex off the top of tall buildings, or burn them to death.
- Abd-Allah ibn ‘Abbas
islamqa.info/en/answers/38622/the-punishment-for-homosexuality

8. Punishments under sharia law
//For a handful of specific crimes, the punishment is fixed (ḥadd):

⁃death for apostasy
⁃amputation of the hand for theft
⁃and of the hand and foot for highway robbery
⁃death by stoning for extramarital sexual relations (zinā) when the offender is married and 100 lashes when the offender is unmarried
⁃80 lashes for an unproved accusation of unchastity (qadhf)
⁃and for the drinking of any intoxicant.//
www.britannica.com/topic/sharia/Penal-law

9. Antisemitism
For example:

//The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews, when the Jews will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say, “O Muslim, O Abdullah [slave of Allah], there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.”//
- Sahih Muslim, 41:6985

Pretty sure you could find equally appalling passages in the Old Testament.

Not to my knowledge, and I do know the Old Testament.

There are some unpleasant directions to the Israelites to enter the Promised Land and get rid of the people in it, but that applied only to that nation at that time (and was part of the salvation plan of God for the world).

Can you give examples?

mae13

Religion, any religion take your pick, has forever been the major source of violent conflict and oppression throughout the world. We could well do without it.

According to the Encyclopaedia of Wars, less than 7% of all wars involved a religious cause, accounting for less than 2% of all people killed in warfare. Of these, about 4% of all wars involved Islam and about 3% involved Christianity.

Whereas around 6 million people died in the Crusades, nearly 35 million soldiers and civilians died in World War I alone.
www.huffpost.com/entry/is-religion-the-cause-of-_b_1400766

90 million people died under extremely oppressive atheist regimes in the twentieth century.
www.patheos.com/blogs/publiccatholic/2013/03/atheist-governments-of-the-20th-century-the-death-toll-of-godless-goodness/#e7fIbCaTX4M6KxDt.99

There is no worse country in the world to live than the atheist dictatorship of North Korea.

I suppose its good to show a little humility when discussing Islam perhaps?
Perhaps those who are of this faith would be best placed to comment.

I don't have to show anything. Anyone is free to comment on any subject as long as they remain within the guidelines.

Well said Galaxy and perhaps you would like to expand your POV sixandahalf? I'm struggling to understand why humility is in order when discussing a belief system that in it's purest interpretation states we are lesser because we are women.

Here’s one thing you don’t get in Christianity. I don’t know much about other religions apart from Islam, but I haven’t heard of this occurring under Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism or Sikhism,

//‘Indonesian couple caned 140 times for sex and alcohol offences’
The 21-year-old woman fainted after what authorities said was a record number of strokes to be meted out in a public caning session in the Aceh province.//
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c23ryxre907o

In Saudi Arabia, the world centre of Islam (home to the city of Mecca), 198 people were executed between January and September 2024.
www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/09/saudi-arabia-highest-execution-toll-in-decades-as-authorities-put-to-death-198-people/

Other punishments used there under Sharia law include amputation, stoning and lashing.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_system_of_Saudi_Arabia