Shorten your time in purgatory

And Murray did win.

I cannot respond, Jings I'm in the very naughty corner.

Yeah. And you ought to stay there! You'ree getting no sympathy from me lady!

Keep on posting WISEWOMAN, you make good points !!

Wisewoman I am sorry for upsetting you. I was not meaning to. Please accept my apologies. I shall stay away from this thread in future.

Oh dear. I've just seen this. And of course the way it has been reported makes a nonsense of the idea.

I can't find it, and haven't the time anyway, but we had a discussion of sorts on here some months ago and I attempted to shed a little light on the concept.

I'm sure I failed.

But essentially the idea of purgatory is that it enables a person to enter into the fullness of the love of God. How or what that means doesn't matter. God is beyond time and space so how can we know.

Yes, indulgences are bizarre. I think of them as rather like getting an CBE from Her Mag. It doesn't change anything, it doesn't really mean anything. But it's tradition and lots of people like it.

From what I can read between the lines the context is that any Catholic who turns, even momentarily, away from materialistic and selfish concerns, will become closer to God. That is, less selfish and focussed on the poor, which, so far, seems to have been the theme of Pope Francis' ministry.

Soop you are not upsetting me. It is just that it is so easy to mock peoples' beliefs but what is gained by it. If someone's faith is important to them it won't be changed by mockery so what is the point? The older I get the more tolerant I get of other peoples' sensitivities. I have reached a point in my life where I think the thing that is most important is kindness. If we can all be kind to one another the world will be a better place. Simplistic? Yes it is but it helps me. I can understand someone like greatnan discussing with micelf in a spirit of genuine enquiry but the mockery upsets me (not you!) I have stayed away from the Religion and Spirituality thread and don't know why I allowed myself to get involved this time. Will go away to other threads and chatter.

Thank you, wisewoman

Thank you, Micelf - it makes sense when you explain it!

I am not ashamed to say that I don't respect the belief (if it exists) that following the pope on Twitter will reduce the follower's time in purgatory. This is partly because I don't believe in purgatory though I respect anyone else's right to believe in it. But it's also because I think it's an utterly ridiculous thing (the shortening of time in purgatory by doing something on Twitter) to believe though, once again, I fully respect anyone else's right to believe it.

How about those who always complain when I mock a belief (a belief, note, not a person; the OP is not mocking anyone, only an abstract thing; no-one is damaged (nor their beliefs) by its being mocked)... where was I?... oh yes... how about those people respecting my right to mock what I think is silly, and I'll carry on respecting their right to believe anything they choose, even if I think it's silly and say so.

Now, mock my belief that this purgatory offer is silly. Mock it. Don't complain about it hurting anyone or the fact that I voice it.

Finally, the point that is achieved (since somebody asked) is the declaration that it's allright to mock ideas, religious or otherwise, that one thinks are ridiculous. I mock scientific ideas that I think are ridiculous too. Religious ideas are not exempt.

Thank you for your explanation, mice. Your last paragraph especially. I believe that non-Catholics, even atheists, benefit from less focus on materialism and selfishness too. I think it's a universal value. If some Catholics want purgatorial indulgences to help them along, that's fine.

My point in my previous post is that I'm allowed to mock. Mocking ideas or ways of thinking about things that feel alien is not the same as mocking people. Sorry, but I think this needs saying over and over and over again.

If the Catholic Church accepts such modern things as Twitter why doesn't it accept the other modern day invention of contraception?

So, the logic behind telling people that following the Pope's tweets will get people a shorter time in Purgatory is that if they follow the tweets and pay close attention to the lessons and advice given in them they will become better people and therefore more worthy of being granted time off for good behaviour?

Why doesn't the Pope say so, instead of leaving readers with the impression that it is like being guaranteed to win the lottery if you make sure that you hold a four-leafed clover in one hand while you tick off your successful numbers with the others? Then there would be less mockery.

Can't quite see the connection there.

That was in reply to Tegan btw

Bye for now. Enjoy your evening.

Because if he just said so in plain language, it wouldn't be religion. As I said, focussing less on materialism and selfishness is good for anyone (at least I think it is), religious or not.

I thought everything was black and white and cast in stone according to things that were written ages ago so I don't see how things that involve Twitter can count?

Bye, soop. Enjoy yours too

Be fair. They do say this in the article.

"a senior Vatican official warned web-surfing Catholics that indulgences still required a dose of old-fashioned faith, and that paradise was not just a few mouse clicks away.
"You can't obtain indulgences like getting a coffee from a vending machine,"

Looks like you've gotta walk the walk.

Bye soop!

Having been brought up as a catholic and seen how much changed as it was challenged (mocked even!), I don't think things are as concretey as one might reasonably have supposed

That was in reply to tegan.

My parents used to take us on holiday to catholic seminar weeks. The adults argued like blazes all week about how doctrine should be interpreted. I,m sure plenty of mocking was done, if my (very faithful) dad was anything to go by.

We kids had a whale of a time running wild in the grounds of Spode House Priory.

There is no such word as concretey.