On a currently godless note...

Here's another one for you in a similar vein:

"I don't like Marmite"
"I dislike Marmite"

The former is usually presumed to mean the latter, but they're not the same, one leaves room for indifference, the other doesn't.

The interesting thing is that if I were to say "I don't dislike Marmite", indifference would tend to be presumed.

crun your last sentence makes me think of people who say "I won't say no". Always makes me laugh.

crun While your analogy seems logical, it doesn't take into account that no one can be indifferent to Marmite.

As in 'I won't say no to a piece of cake'

I agree that no-one can be indifferent to Marmite, although I am indifferent to Vegemite.

I see the difference in bags's post although after thinking about it I need a piece of cake, as opposed to I would like a piece of cake.

Doesn't it all depend on how literally one interprets or uses the word believe?

I have clocked the title of this thread. "currently godless"

Does this mean that Bags is actually open to conversion?!!!

soon! Here's your chance!

just clocked...

I wouldn't count your chickens on that one soon!

"crun While your analogy seems logical, it doesn't take into account that no one can be indifferent to Marmite."

I'd forgotten the advertising slogan when I chose Marmite for the example.

Just caught up with this thread jingl!

And Mishap!

Martin Luther (not Mr Nice Guy in my opinion) said:

“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but more frequently than not struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God.”

I don't know about reason being a whore, but I think he was right that it is the greatest enemy of faith - and rightly so.

On the basis of only a little consideration I've formed the view that thrashing about looking for God is like trying to see your way round a coal mine with only a candle to help you, and just as dangerous. Recent advances in science confirm the smallness and bigness of everything around us and that space, time and matter are all the same thing anyway. Heavy stuff that but perhaps God is hiding in there somewhere waiting to pounce on the unwary. In the meantime I think its probably best to hedge one's bets and keep an open mind.

I wouldn't want to use reason to deprive people of their faith!

Anyway, what about faith in things other than religion, say in a partner's loyalty and love and that it will last? I once did a course in 'risk' and remember how it was shown that logically a person cannot promise to love another for ever, or even a year!

I don't think belief in a partner's or friend's loyalty is based on faith alone. i think it is based on knowledge of the person, how they behave, the principles they (try to) hold to and so on. Basing one's judgment on that sort of thing is called knowing a person. Faith doesn't come into it imo.

Exactly - you use reason to assess the possibilities. Then if you're me you get it all wrong, but - hey - that's how the biscuit disintegrates.

petallus - you are quite right, not wanting to use reason to deprive someone of their faith. What you want is for THEM to use reason, and abandon it!