There is definitely no loving God. Fact.

Joan Isn't it interesting, though, that the vast deserts of the Middle East gave rise to such powerful and lasting religions? Maybe that was because the skies were filled with so many visible stars and the spaces on the Earth were so huge and isolating. People must have seemed truly insignificant and needed to give meaning to their relatively short lives.

That may account for the grand old ages of some Old Testament figures, and, occasionally, their wives, e.g. Sarah, infertile throughout her life, who conceived Isaac when she was 90 years old, thus fulfilling god's prophecy to her husband who, by that time, was over 100 years old.

Perhaps the Australians need to remember what they have done to the true people of that continent before condemning hatred in any other country

Anniebach Perhaps all former Pacific colonies need to think about it, given the vast empty spaces of the region. North America too.

Most definitely absent , so quick to condemn whilst ignoring their acts
Of greed and violence

No one can be made to feel guilty or be held responsible for the deeds or mis deeds of former generations dreadful though they were, and certainly has no bearing whatsoever on present day condemnation of hatred and persecution in present day countries. None of us can help or alter past behaviour conducted by our forebears long before we we were born, so to say that we should remember what these ancestors did (and do what?!!) before we condemn atrocity in the modern age is imo ridiculous.

No, it isn't rediculous, what is happening in the Middle East has been going on for years, you are saying don't do as we did , do as we say, imo

So how far back would you go then? Italians apologising for Roman conquests? Medieval atrocities? Spanish conquest of the indigenous peoples of South America? African tribes warring with each other? Just about every country in the world over the centuries have either invaded or been invaded, it's not just peculiar to Britain or her offshoots. FGS, are you seriously suggesting that only people in countries that have never invaded or conquered another are the only one who can sympathise or contribute help to present days conflicts, without wearing a hair shirt for their country's history that had absolutely nothing to do with the current generation?!!! I think these country's would be very thin on the ground!

absent the reason those religions are so widespread and powerful is nothing to do with their origins simply that they have over the years actively and forcefully spread their doctrine often through conquest and subordination.

No nigglynellie I am not saying that , as for centuries , up to the sixties this country was shipping children to Australia where many were treated as farm hands , sod the crusades , try the 1950's, the 1990's which brought the end of apartheid in S A, today the KKK is doing well in the good old USA which they claim God blesses and defends

Anniebach accused Australia thus:
Perhaps the Australians need to remember what they have done to the true people of that continent before condemning hatred in any other country

Australians DO remember, and have done/are doing as much as possible to rectify historical wrongs, from PM Rudd’s parliamentary apology in 2007, to ongoing programs all over the country. There are extra benefits, educational help and much more. I have always voted for the party that pushes these issues.

The Middle Eastern people seem to revel in ethnic and religious hatreds, and are moving backwards towards the 7th century, but with 21st century weapons and technology. There is no reconciliation there, no apologies, no insights - nothing but entrenched hatreds.

There is no comparison, none whatsoever.

BTW, during the height of the Black panther movement in the USA, Aboriginal (male) leaders were invited by the movement to the USA, and while there were encouraged to join them and form an Australian Black Panther/ Muslim movement. The men took the idea back to Australia, but the Aboriginal women would not hear of it. The idea died a quick death. If it wasn’t for sensible Aboriginal women we may well have had real home grown Muslim troubles here. I was told this story by a prominent Aborigine lawyer who was a young man at the time.

Totally agree with your post Joan. I have Australian relations and I know how much has been done to right past wrongs. I think however, the bottom line is, as with most things perceived to be Britain's fault for going to the Antipodes in the first place!!! As I've said, none of us can rewind the clock or help what happened in the past, we can of course make a better future which of course I believe we should certainly do. Tell this to China, ref Tibet, or South American countries ref indigenous people or Russia ref Crimea, Ukraine, and, well let's say these countries see things differently. Britain isn't the only country in the world who behaved reprehensibly in the past, and whatever happened in the Middle East is absolutely no excuse for the barbarians/monsters who now are determined to drag the whole area back into the dark ages and take the rest of us with them.

Thanks nn. There IS much about my adopted country that upsets me, especially on refugees, but so many of us fight to make things right.

2007? That is only nine years ago , when did persecution of the aborigines start? Yet the Middle East are condemned for not apologising now? Have we apologise for bombing Iraq and Afghanistan? Yes there are Australians who want justice for the aborigines but surely to say they are having extra benefits etc with such pride is so wrong ? How many generations died before the apology and the extra benefits. And let us not forget - it is their country

As for the sensible aboriginal women - sense or fear ?

In the Middle East, ancient slights and wrongs and blood feuds last forever. There is simply no way to deal with such people and they are best left alone. They chew on anger and resentment and judgemental attitudes, like chewing on an everlasting old bone.

In our civilised western industrial nations there are also a few people like this, and the best way to deal with them is to ignore them. Their sanctimonious self-righeousness is best ignored.

Hence I leave this thread.

Joan A couple of years ago I went to see a screening of the film "Utopia" by John Pilger, which was about the degrading and disrespectful treatment of aboriginal people, both in the past but - more importantly - at the present time. It was truly horrifying that in this day and age in a wealthy country like Australia its original inhabitants should be so badly treated.

Oh for goodness sake give it a rest! Why are you people gunning for Australia?! I suppose it makes a change from Britain, but FGS how.can Joan help her government's policy or country's past?! Well done ab you've driven yet someone else off these threads by your hostile insulting comments, about a country you clearly know little about. Someone who might have something interesting to say has gone thanks to your intolerance and hostile attitude, well done indeed!

Anyone who makes statements about the Middle East such as Joan has is probably better gone.
What's that Christian saying about only seeing the mote in your neighbour's eye not in your own?

Nigglynellie , seems I know more about Australia than Joan does about the Middle East , she voiced her opinions as did I, you seem to have a problem niggly

Oh I see, Joans better gone because her opinions on the Middle east differ from you who of course know everything, and your opinion is the only one that can be discussed! Long live democracy. I'm afraid this is an arrogant attitude very prevalent in this country of ours, which transgresses politics, and is probably a hang over from empire! To criticise another person's country to the point of being offensive is actually insulting and downright rude; No wonder Australians still refer to us as 'pommie b. s' It's also obvious that only European countries are ever taken to task by our holier than thou moral police. There are many appalling governments in this world of ours, who treat their people diabolically,but surprise surprise not a whisper! How selective and hypocritical is that?!! Lets have a pop at Australia, oh, and while we're at it, insult one of its citizens, who, although they may even agree with you, doesn't actually take kindly to having her country trashed by 'poms, as indeed I wouldn't the other way round.'

I wouldn't dream of dismissing an entire country or an entire region because of the actions of a few extremists, but Joandid quite glibly. I don't mind having discussions about things but sorry, sometimes it isn't worth making a point, particularly when such dismissive remarks are made. Australia has a problem to deny that isn't helpful.

Her country trashed? Rubbish, Australia did take ship loads of British children from homes and placed many as farm workers until the sixties - fact. The aborigines had their own country taken from them , wer deprived of decent housing, education and work - fact, they received an apology nine years ago and we should applaud?

What was offensive ?

And if I thought someone was trashing my country I would stay and defend it . I do not do pick and mix when speaking of wrongs carried out by countries , if a country does wrong saying so is not trashing a country , it's speaking the truth .

The way I read Joan's post is she is talking about a few people in the Middle East? Not the whole population.

Lots of countries were awful and still are, but let's forget about them and concentrate on the one or two where we can safely vent our venom. No one's applauding anything, but it wasn't just Australia that took children, hence them being called 'Children of the Empire,' the clue is in the title!! It wasn't just Australia who treated indigenous people reprehensibly, Joan was the first to acknowledge that this happened in Australia. Don't just gun for one country and insult one of its citizens and keep silent about other far worse governments both past and present. I doubt there is a country in the world that hasn't darkness in it's past. A lot of people in Australia are doing a lot of good things, just because they choose not to shout it from the rooftops doesn't mean it isn't happening. Joan's entitled to her opinions on the Middle east, just the same as you are, just because they don't fit with yours does not exclude her from voicing them. How can there ever be a variety of conversations if only one opinion is allowed? as any deviation will be immediately stamped on and driven away!!

She doesn't say a few people and this contrast between the "civilised western industrialised nations" is really unacceptable. Does she not realise that mathematics, medicine, science, and almost all the things our civilisation is built on, originated in Middle Eastern countries.