There is definitely no loving God. Fact.

Nigglynellie, voicing a criticism of any country is acceptable, an acid tongued attack on posters is not

Not sure if it is worth pointing out that the Bible says that there are two fractrions in that region who will never be at peace with one another.

Joan has not been "driven away". She voiced some opinions that some people took issue with and therefore challenged. She objected to those opinions being expressed and therefore decided not to engage any further. What you seem to be saying nigglynellie is that the people with whom you agree should be able to say what they like, without challenge.

It wasn't just Australia that committed atrocities and subjugated whole communities of people - but we were talking about Australia because Joan brought it up.

I think it's worth pointing out obieone

No I'm not saying that at all Eloethan, in fact the exact opposite! I feel that anyone should be able to voice their opinion over any subject whatever that opinion/subject is and in return get a reasonable, thoughtful, and above all respectful answers whether in agreement or in opposition, not dictatorial criticism, argumentative, sanctimonious comments, which are just downright insulting and rude.

Then you can lead nigglynellie by not making untrue and acid tongued accusations against poster - practice what you preach yes?

ab, I have never commented on or about the poster. Perhaps you could point these comments, out to me. I don't believe in a loving God if that's what you mean, but then neither does the poster!!!

Nigglynellie, I am not God , what you say about God is your choice, accusing me of driving a poster away etc was a personal attack on a poster , I did not say one personal comment to Joan I did speak of the treatment of the aborigines , an apology from you can end this, thank you

we never believed you WERE God anniebach ( strange as that may seem)???
Niggly and Joan were talking a lot of sense, as they usually do.
This thread has veered wildly off it's original topic though.

Not at all strange Rosesarered, I have never claimed to be ,are you using the Royal 'we'

Your post says ' I am not God' ?

It gave me a giggle anyway.

And are you using the royal'we'?

OH you meant you ab, I thought you were referring to the OP! my mistake! But I have nothing to apologise to you for. The only reason the conversation was turned into a pop against Australia is because Joan came from there, nothing to do with the OP or the conversation at hand. Imo, unprovoked criticism of someone else's country to the point of telling them that they are in no position to have an opinion because of where they live is unacceptable. Doubting comments that his person made about her own country/countrymen is just offensive, so, I think it is you who should be apologising to Joan ab, if she's foolish enough to be reading any of this. I haven't insulted anyone, so no apology from me!

Sorry Nellie, have things to do, you find someone else to niggle at , enjoy

This thread has moved a long way from the original post. It seems to be all about egos now. . #Gransnet

Anyone who makes statements about the Middle East such as Joan has is probably better gone.
For what it's worth I believe that Joan is as entitled to her opinions as anyone on here without being told to go; because some people disagree with her ideas on the Middle East does not necessarily make them wrong, they are her views. People express some very extreme views on GN without being told to go!!
And it astounds me that people who are not Australian, have probably never visited there, know all about the problems there. But, then again, par for the course.
One poster who had lived in the Middle East and knew of its problems was villified on another thread if I remember, by righteous posters with their rhetoric and holier-than-thou attitudes. What a pity if a poster giving us a view-point from the other side of the world has been driven away by nastiness.

It was truly horrifying that in this day and age in a wealthy country like Australia its original inhabitants should be so badly treated I, for one, would disagree with that statement.
The Australians haven't yet got it right regarding the social problems with the Aboriginal people, but they are trying very hard. Yes, it may have taken years for an apology to be forthcoming from Rudd, but at least there was one. Many Aboriginal people are fully integrated into society but there is still a long way to go. The benefits system, skewed in favour of the Aboriginal people, has not always had a beneficial effect and there are many, many people trying to educate and integrate the younger generation after their parents and grandparents have been lost to drink, among them many retired educators and medical experts who give of their time willingly and freely.

And let us not forget - it is their country, well taken to its logical conclusion, this country should belong to the original British peoples, so would you like the rest of us to leave anniebach? Including those of us whose ancestors were refugees?

The Middle East has been a hot-bed of tension for millennia, extremely tragic and sad as it was the cradle of civilisation and did give the world so much - including the religions which are being used as an excuse for so much war and terror today.
Joan is right when she says that there is no comparison between the Middle East and Australia.

Jamila, I have not asked or said anyone should go. As for your praise of the white Australians, hardly a major effort , it's taken several hundred years and they managed an apology a few years ago, I do agree though, they certainly haven't got it right yet . And just a reminder, it was Joan who brought Australia into this discussion

I didn't say that it was you who asked Joan to go anniebach I know it was another poster.

I didn't praise white Australians (did you misread my post?), and it hasn't taken several hundred years for an apology as Australia wasn't colonised until 1788.
It is not just white Australians who are working towards better education and integration, there are many Aboriginal leaders, politicians, assembly members, mayors etc who are all doing the same, together with people whose ancestors may be from many countries as so many Australians are not of British extraction and in fact are not all white.

Joan may have brought Australia into the discussion but other posters ran with it too.

I said she was probably best leaving. IMO her statement-"There is simply no way to deal with such people and they are best left alone" is verging on racial abuse. How would anyone feel if the same thing was said about right wing Australians?

Ah, I see where the confusion arose anniebach:
so would you like the rest of us to leave anniebach?
I meant, from your name I assume your ancestry is original British - just saying that a lot of us may be descended from 'invaders' and 'colonisers' - and refugees in the country of the ancient Celts.

"There is simply no way to deal with such people and they are best left alone" is verging on racial abuse.

You see, I don't read it as that, trisher, and I have heard a lot of people express the view that we should never meddle in the Middle East; I don't think that is a racist view, rather it is pragmatic and quite honestly, we make more mess when we do meddle as can be seen today.
However, read into it what you will, that is my view of what Joan meant, but you may look at it with different pre-conceived notions.

How would anyone feel if the same thing was said about right wing Australians?
Are you saying that certain posters are right wing Australians trisher?

Actually, Joan only mentioned, in passing that she lived in a quiet, largely godless, peaceful area of Australia; other than that, Australia wasn't actually up for discussion until others chose to make it so, and started beligerantly to bring up things they clearly knew little or nothing about. Joan rather naturally backed off and left the thread! There's nothing racist about saying that middle east might have been better if us clever clogs in the west had left it alone, or should do so now, it's an opinion anyone is entitled to express, others don't have to agree, but surely can air their views without sneering insults? Surely a more tolerant discussion should be possible enabling a more balanced view of a very dreadful situation that is the Middle East, instead of just banging on about a country you clearly have little knowledge of, forcing one of its citizens into a defensive position! How rude and arrogant is that!!

I consider over two hundred years to be several hundred years, but I am not into nit picking .

just to nitpick, I would say it had to be at least four hundred to be several
Although I would admit that looking after two children can feel like looking after several -especially at my age--