There is definitely no loving God. Fact.

There is a scientific explanation for the universe and all the natural phenomena that happen on earth.

People believed in a God because they were unable to grasp the concept of all this and had to believe that the universe must have been made by a Being greater than them.
If there is a God he is sitting up there, pulling strings and watching man destroy the earth that he made - if he is omnipotent he could stop it - he doesn't. If he is so powerful, he didn't do such a great job with humankind.

That does not mean that I do not believe that Jesus did not exist, that beings visited the earth and were thought of as gods.

Leticia makes a very good point, in that we are only able to think in a human way, our brains can only make so many connections.
Who is to say that death is even a bad thing?

There is definitely a loving God. Fact.

The Collins English Dictionary's definition of 'fact' includes "a truth verifiable from experience and observation". I have experienced God's love in my own life and observed His love in the lives of others so there is definitely a loving God. Fact.

How have you experienced it?

roses it's a bad thing when it happens to a child.

It seems to me that if there was a god, he/she/it would be a pretty unpleasant character. To create a world in which there are terrible diseases and catastrophic natural disasters, together with human beings who appear to be fatally flawed would, I think, indicate a very sadistic being.

I personally don't think there is a god (and certainly not a "loving" god) although I acknowledge that our very existence is a huge, unexplained mystery and it would be very unwise to make definitive statements. I do, though, agree with Joan that the whole idea of an afterlife may well prevent people from concentrating on the here and now and doing their best to make something of their own lives and other people's.

grannyactivist You seem to be using the argument that it is each individual person's responsibility to house the homeless, feed the hungry, etc. etc. - a bit like David Cameron's "Big Society" idea. In a complex country such as our own, made up of around 70 million people, it would in my view be quite impractical for social provision to be dealt with in an individual and haphazard way, rather than in a collective way through taxation. That doesn't mean that people can't help out when they feel able to do so.

If there is a god. Then it seems that he/she/ it has had a lot of excuses made on his / her behalf .

Collectively we should be expecting our governments to be putting together a proper combined plan to help the refugees. They are in a position to do so.Whatever we do as individuals is just tinkering round the edges.

Eleothan - I agree with your whole post.

I am guilty of only reading the first and last page of this thread, so apologise if someone has asked this before.
Why is man always testing god? Whether god is good or god is evil, man can be good and stop wars, hunger, homelessness, killing.

Eloethan I believe strongly that the government should be responsible for maintaining public services and provision through the levying of taxes, but they're not doing enough (in my opinion) for great swathes of people. I believe the notion of 'Big Society' is simply a pretext for the withdrawal of the state from its responsibilities to the most vulnerable people in society and whilst voluntary groups are lauded in the rhetoric of 'Big Society', in practice they are deprived of funding and rely ever more heavily on individuals for their ability to deliver services.

So, whilst I agitate for change through political and social means I also believe that there is a clear need for people to step into the gap that is left by the withdrawal of governmental support, even though I believe that your assessment is quite correct and this does in fact lead to social provision being dealt with in an individual and haphazard way.

Joan, I agree, your post was very good and thought-provoking.

God = good
Devil = evil

I believe good and evil are in us all, perhaps balanced differently, and we have to strive to overcome the evil that is in all of us.

Quite! Rose

I heard an analogy I quite like. Scurrying ants feel the presence of an elephant nearby. They know there's something there but cannot understand what - it's beyond their understanding. The elephant may also realise there's something moving at his feet and may well try to avoid standing on them, but can't always avoid it.

(I realise some may object to God being compared to an elephant, but I
like elephants)

If we don't know why we are here and the purpose of life then I don't think we can second guess why we have earthquakes etc. We are thinking from a human point of view with limited knowledge. Perhaps there isn't a God and it is just random. I can't see any 'facts' in it.
All the shades of grey are very difficult as to where a line would be drawn. We would all draw it at war -but that starts with people wanting power over others and being mean. At what point is God supposed to step in and say 'that use of power is for the good but that isn't' - or 'that meanness is justified but that isn't'?
I agree durhamjen - it is man causing all the wars, homelessness etc so we should be expecting man to stop it and do the humanitarian thing and not expect some higher being to change them and make them stop.

To any of the questions which trouble us there will be an answer that is simpler than the invention of supernatural forces... and 'Ockham's Razor' tells us that it is the least complicated answer that is most likely to be right! It boils down to probabilities and the probability of the existence of gods and/or goddesses does exist - but is vanishingly small.

@durhamjen - Why is man always testing god? In fact man is always testing the claims that are made for a god or gods by other men/women.

For near two thousand years we have been propagandised with claims about God and 'Jesus' - none of which could ever be substantiated. For the past two or three hundred years, thinking people have been pushing back a little, that's all...

At least you know where you stand with the Devil. He doesn't pretend to care about humanity. When he causes bad things to happen he doesn't hide behind ' human free will'.

Of course this is if, like God, he truly exists.

I've experienced God's love in too many ways and too many times to put them all on here Luckygirl.

I like elephants too NfkDumpling.

But why, feetlebaum?

Man can be good. He does not need to test the ideas of other men and be evil.

One would do.

When I pray Luckygirl

@durhamjen -Why do you associate testing of men's ideas and evil? Seeking the truth is not wicked, whereas propagating untruths often is.

Rose..... I resent your remark that there is evil in all of us, I would consider myself pretty easy going and averse to conflict. By the way, I am an athiest, so I suppose to a believer of God, then I am evil, go figure

Some people attribute good fortune to god, when actually it came from their own efforts, professional help, friends, rescuers or random chance etc. I often read tales of heroic rescues, where people have put their own lives on the line to save someone, then the saved person thanks god!!!! What about the bloody rescuers??? OK they usually thank them too, but really!!!

And?.........*Smileless"

In what way do you experience god's love when you pray?