Gransnet forums

Religion/spirituality

There is definitely no loving God. Fact.

(613 Posts)
jinglbellsfrocks Wed 21-Oct-15 09:46:47

Early this morning, on the World Service, I heard the voice of a six year old boy crying out to the doctors treating him, "Don't let me die! Don't bury me!". The doctors, trying to reassure him, laughed and said, "You're not going to die".

It was in the Yemen. The little boy had just seen a three year old, put into the ground. He was wounded himself shortly afterwards.

He died. The doctors were unable to save him.

If you have heard that young voice on a video on the internet, you will agree with me.

rosequartz Thu 22-Oct-15 22:22:30

Rose..... I resent your remark that there is evil in all of us
NannyGoat if you are offended I am sorry, but I was taught that we were all born with original sin.

Some of us can overcome this better than others. Obviously you have been extremely successful - congratulations! smile

rosequartz Thu 22-Oct-15 22:24:54

By the way, I am an athiest, so I suppose to a believer of God, then I am evil, go figure
Where did I say I was a believer in God NannyGoat?

Logically and scientifically I cannot see how this can be.
However, indoctrination from an early age makes many of us just a little ambivalent - it is like having an insurance policy.

rosequartz Thu 22-Oct-15 22:26:45

And NannyGoat, for someone who proclaims to be so easy going and averse to conflict, your post would appear to be quite aggressive.

(was it meant to be ironic btw?)

jinglbellsfrocks Thu 22-Oct-15 22:30:39

Not many people have evil in them. That's not what original sin means.

NannyGoat12345 Thu 22-Oct-15 22:33:58

Rose.... born with original sin? Really?? A baby has sinned when it is born, I fail to see how that can be.

jinglbellsfrocks Thu 22-Oct-15 22:35:47

That original sin thing is daft in itself. Who believes it these days?

jinglbellsfrocks Thu 22-Oct-15 22:37:30

I don't think sinful is always actually 'evil'.

Anniebach Thu 22-Oct-15 22:37:40

Strange ideas some atheists have of Christians, and interesting some spend do much time thinking what the thoughts of Christians could be .

As I Christian i am not concerned about the thoughts of atheists or puzzle trying to work out why they are atheists, it's their choice and I respect it, no way do I consider them evil

I don't think about the afterlife and will I meet loved ones, for me it means I will be in the presence of Christ. I don't think about judgement or hell or will those who have done wrong will be on the slide to hell, I don't believe in hell and damnation anyway.

Some people attribute good fortune to a lucky charm do they not ?

Seems atheists are troubled by Christians though

jinglbellsfrocks Thu 22-Oct-15 22:38:41

'Go figure' is not a nice phrase though.

rosequartz Thu 22-Oct-15 22:45:00

www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/beliefs/originalsin_1.shtml
It doesn't say that the baby has sinned does it?

There may, of course, be perfect beings who are truly good and never ever have a bad thought, post an unkind post and have never had even a passing evil thought about what they would like to do to the kinds of people mentioned in the OP who killed that little boy.

durhamjen Thu 22-Oct-15 22:45:01

I am troubled by Christians like soon.

rosequartz Thu 22-Oct-15 22:49:04

Yes, jings it is a widely held belief

Getting rid of original sin
The only way a person can 'cleanse' their soul from sin is to:^

^accept that Christ's death on the cross atoned for this sin
accept that only God's grace can cure this sin
confess their sins and ask for forgiveness
be baptised^
Many churches accept that infants can be cleansed of original sin by being baptised soon after birth. The other elements required are carried out by adults on the baby's behalf during the ceremony

jinglbellsfrocks Thu 22-Oct-15 22:50:50

Having bad thoughts, or even posting something unkind, doesn't make you evil!

rosequartz Thu 22-Oct-15 22:55:41

wink

stirring up with aggressive language is not that nice though, is it although perhaps not evil! hmm
(not you jings)

However, I have never come across anyone before who claimed to be perfect and has never ever had the slightest evil thought.
Even the most humble and virtuous of people I have met in my life would not proclaim that.

Anniebach Thu 22-Oct-15 22:56:42

Jen, fundamentalists trouble me because some judge all Christians to hold the same beliefs , yes belief in God, but not in fire and brimstone , that is living in fear in my opinion , I don't understand how one can believe in a God of love who is also a God of vengeance

durhamjen Thu 22-Oct-15 22:59:16

I agree, Anniebach.

soontobe Thu 22-Oct-15 23:32:32

*I don't understand how one can believe in a God of love who is also a God of vengeance

If you read the Bible in its entire 66 books, that is not difficult to understand.
Part of Christianity is obedience.

durhamjen www.victorious.org/cbook/chur21 Last paragraph of the link. I am the former and not the latter. Though I appreciate that we are talking on an online forum and not in real life.
Do you have a problem with the former?

soontobe Thu 22-Oct-15 23:34:20

Anniebach. OUt of interest, do you pray "Thy kingdom come"?

rosequartz Thu 22-Oct-15 23:36:09

Part of Christianity is obedience.
Perhaps that's where I have a problem with it soon

I never was very good at doing as I'm told hmm

soontobe Thu 22-Oct-15 23:43:17

smile
You dont come across on gransnet as being more disobedient than anyone else!

But if I remember correctly, Paul in the New Testament was one of the most disobedient men on the planet in his time.

If someone is genuinely sorry and asks forgiveness, all that persons' sins are forgiven.

Granny23 Thu 22-Oct-15 23:57:16

I was brought up in a Christian (Church of Scotland) family, never questioning the beliefs of my parents, teachers, Sunday School until, when I was sixteen two things happened. Firstly the darling only child of a couple who lived across the road, simply slipped on a slide at school, banged her head and died. She was a late baby, who arrived unexpectedly 20 years after her parents' marriage, an angelic child, a ray of sunshine, good as gold - truly a gift from God. She was 11 years old when she died, her funeral was on Christmas Eve.

Within a month another neighbour came to our house in great distress. Her friend, having spent most of her life caring for her disabled father and aged mother, filled the gap they left by adopting a boy who had been born severely mentally and physically disabled. It had taken her over a year to persuade the authorities that he could be cared for in a loving home rather than the special needs orphanage where he had been from birth. She became his mother and devoted herself to him working tirelessly to teach him every day skills. She was so successful that aged 6 he was able to walk, talk, feed and dress himself and started primary school just a year late - Praise be to God. As a reward for the lad's hard work and determination his Uncle bought him a brand new 3 wheeler bike and the wee boy was over the moon when he found that he could work the pedals and zoomed all round the garden, straight down the drive into the path of a car and was killed instantly.

The driver was distraught, his Mum blamed herself for leaving the gates wide open, Uncle felt it was all his fault. Our neighbour, who had become 'Auntie' and regaled us with tales of his progress, could not accept the reality of his death at all. For the second time my Father cried and hugged us tight.

Me? I learned that there was not a 'loving heavenly Father'. I realised that my own earthly Father (and Mother) would literally move heaven and earth if the could, or give their own life willingly to save me, yet this God we all worshipped could not be bothered to lift his little finger to avert these tragedies. I lost all faith & trust in God and decided that I would instead place my faith and trust in human beings and indeed throughout my life in times of trouble it has been friends, neighbours and total strangers who have helped me and brought me comfort - a debt which I strive to repay in my everyday life.

If all the good religious people in the world devoted the time, money and energy they spend on religious observances to doing some practical good the world would be a better place.

Eloethan Fri 23-Oct-15 00:11:01

I found that very moving Granny23.

harrigran Fri 23-Oct-15 00:17:15

Well said Granny23.
Having worked in a children's hospital and seen death and suffering of such innocents, I could not give praise to this supposed saviour.

Cherrytree59 Fri 23-Oct-15 00:46:51

The op and your post granny123 brought tears to my eyes. To take a child is an unbearable thing! it happened twice in our family. All I want to do now is. Love protect my darling INNOCENT grandsons.
My parents had to leave their homeland. Because of religious people who put their god First . My mother died a dreadful death at young age. Leaving my young sister motherless. My father who became deaf through a bomb blast In the blitz was left with out his 'Rock'. He was left for thirty years a widower.. Then had ten years of painful illness before dying a terrible undignified death.

Cherrytree59 Fri 23-Oct-15 00:55:26

The op and your post granny123 brought tears to my eyes. To take a child is an unbearable thing! it happened twice in our family. All I want to do now is. Love protect my darling INNOCENT grandsons.
My parents had to leave their homeland. Because of religious people who put their god First . My mother died a dreadful death at young age. Leaving my young sister motherless. My father who became deaf through a bomb blast In the blitz was left with out his 'Rock'. He was left for thirty years a widower.. Then had ten years of painful illness before dying a terrible undignified death.