Lords Prayer advert banned

No matter that there use to be a winter festival, I just want to understand why The Lords Prayer should be said only in the home or church but singing praise of the birth is for public places, shops, streets etc

'Our father who art in heaven ' must not be said in public but 'oh come let us adore Christ The Lord ' be said in public and why do atheists sing of praising a Christ who on this forum has been considered the same as the tooth fairy

People who want to can say the Lord's Prayer anywhere they want, ab, silently or out loud except, obviously, in a situation where they would disturb someone else, e.g. someone watching a TV programme wouldn't thank them if it interupted the sound of the broadcasr. Why isn't that enough? I would have thought that that was complete freedom to express one's religion.

What one isn't completely free to do, and neither are people of any other faith or none, is impose the prayer on others when others don't want it. That is what a religious cinema ad would effectively do.

Would you want to have, say, Islamic prayers imposed on you in such a way?

I celebrate Christmas in the way I want, i.e. in an atheist way. It marks the passing of the shortest day of the year. People can call it what they want. I usually call it Christmas but it isn't a christian festival in our house because we are not christians. Is that a problem? Are we not allowed to interpret the passing seasons in our own way? If not, why not?

Christianity does not own the midwinter celebrations even though it sometimes looks as if they'd like to.

Christians can make their part of it as religious as they like. No-one is stopping them, just as no-one is stopping me from making my christmas about the passing solstice.

Exactly thatbags. Imposing anything on people who don't want it is not a good thing, and this is what would be happening, whatever religion it happened to be, so, thank you, but no thank you!

Oh, face it ab. Christmas isn't what it used to be. Christianity is fading fast. Christmas is just a jolly holiday these days. It just happens to still use the old name. (Which is odd in itself)

Bags don't you feel a bit uncomfortable, celebrating a Christ-mass when you don't actually believe the back story. No you don't. Neither do I.

I don't celebrate a Christ Mass, jings. The word Christmas covers that meaning but it also covers all the other interpretations, of which mine is one.

I even send seasonal greetings to my Muslim friends, and they are perfectly happy about that.

I certainly would feel uncomfortable going to Church to celebrate, as I don't believe. Our local Vicar always used to make refences to 'how nice to see so many of you here- would be nice to see you other times too' ...

Christmas of course if very ancient- and had originally nothing to do with Christianity. So for many of us it ahs a very different meaning.

I totally agree with the 'ban' as adverts are much better to stay non-religious.

Must say I am much much more concerned about the massive sexualisation of young girls in so many adverts this years.

It is truly time to separate Church and State imho.

Here's a concise summation: @samdick: "Either someone at CoE knew the advertising rules and is being deceptive or didn't know them and is being incompetent.Tut tut."

People who are quite certain they don't believe should go back to the old name of Yule. Hypocritical to use the Christian name for it.

Thatbags, seems you just don't understand my posts or choose to ignore them, let me try again

I am interested in the reasons why atheists sing hymns but do not want prayer mentioned unless behind closed doors, got that bit ?

I have not said how I think atheists should celebrate. Christmas, it is. Their choice , I don't care, got it now ?

I think the decision of the cinema is the right one; firstly because it adheres to their agreed policy (so they had not choice), and also because it would open up the possibility that other faiths might quite reasonably insist they could should be able to recite one of their prayers before films.

I celebrate Christmas because it is an opportunity to remind ourselves of the need to be kind to others, for families to get together and for some of the worthwhile aspects of the myth to penetrate our thinking - e.g. the concept of strength in weakness that is embodied in the baby Jesus myth. You do not have to believe the letter of what you hear to take away some useful insights into human nature.

And yes - I sing carols, because it is these myths that have inspired many musicians and artists to their best work.

I play and sing a lot for local churches - even as an agnostic I am happy to sit through the sermons etc. and sometimes there are useful ideas to take away that do not demand a belief in the super-natural. There is also a whole lot that I cannot believe and some bits that I find frankly objectionable, but I'm happy to help out as the church in its local incarnation here is pretty harmless.

Thank you Luckygirl, an explanation at last .

I think if I asked - do you put milk in first it would have brought out sarcasm in some

I agree , if a Christian prayer then prayers from all faiths , this is not a Christian country , we have a Christian head of state , that's it

I'm going back to my original belief that the ad was not and is not banned. See link for explanation.

Maybe atheists don't think carols are hymns, ab. I wouldn't know. I don't sing hymns or carols, nor do I think about them. I used to sing in a choir though and much of what we sang had religious connections. This is because in the past (it was old music we sang on the whole) it was religious people who commissioned the music. It was the music I was singing and enjoying. Any words were just padding whose meaning, as far as I was concerned, didn't matter a jot. Maybe people regard hymns and carols they were brought up with in the same light as nursery rhymes: a harmless and often pleasant part of their culture that had a meaning once but whose meaning now doesn't matter to them.

Andrew Watson @BishopGuildford (onTwitter)

Winterval all over again. Has anyone actually asked other faith leaders if they're offended by the Lord's Prayer? twitter.com/callummay/status/668336605275533313 …
8:13 AM - 22 Nov 2015.

Here's another one.

Sarah Wollaston MP
✔
@sarahwollaston

As a gentle atheist, I'm not offended by Church screening gentle cinema adverts; we shouldn't reject our deep cultural roots in Christianity
2:08 PM - 22 Nov 2015

I like that.

"Thank you Luckygirl, an explanation at last ."

Did you need some kind of 'explanation' ab?

I do wonder why the advert agencies are now choosing to say they are not showing the advert because it might upset people - that is opening the can of worms that is the 'right not to be offended' vs the right of free speech.

They should have stuck to their argument that it contravenes their policy, which no-one can argue with.

ab I enjoy singing hymns when I choose to do so, because generally I like the tunes and sometimes the words contain universal truths. Hills of the North Rejoice is one of my favourites. When we sang it at school I would have wonderful pictures in my head of the Shores of the Utmost West and the Isles of the Southern Seas, deep in their coral caves.

I don't see any connection between that and being forced, as part of a captive audience, to listen to the Archbishop of Canterbury reciting the Lord's Prayer.

Please do not interpret any of this as sarcasm.

I think the Church should trademark 'Christmas'. Put their foot/feet down firmly against anyone using the Christian name for any other purpose than that which it is meant for. No more money making out of it, to start off with.

as they seem to be doing

Jingle , if I don't understand something I ask for an explanation , I don't know it all so I ask for views , opinions and explanations

Thank you janeaisworth ,

Well, it's in all the newspapers.

I see the CofE are thinking about suing the company over the cinema rejection of its advert. How perfectly ridiculous. What a good way of lining lawyers' pockets with money that could be spent on helping the poor, as their founder advocated.

They are also asking for any adverts about Christmas to be banned in cinemas - what right does the church have to tell anyone what they can or cannot say or can or cannot screen outside of the church? - absolutely none. It is like a cinema chain telling a church that it cannot sing Hark the Herald in their own building - absolutely nothing to do with them.

This whole episode shows a distinct lack of judgment on the part of the Archbishop.

No, I don't agree. Perhaps it's time the Church fought back a bit.

Why should there be so much "kerching!!!" involved in something that primarily belongs to the Christian religion. People seem to want it all ways. They want the fun and the feasting whilst dismising the belief - often in a nasty manner.