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Religion/spirituality

Do you believe in angels

(119 Posts)
practical Mon 30-May-16 18:51:25

If you do what would you say is a sign any angels are near?

practical Sat 04-Jun-16 15:56:26

roses people have seen angels a magazine I have each month often state it on the letters page.
I cant find where I saw a site that was on about the 1st world war where a whole army group saw a host of them in the sky and apparently the germans saw them and although they were winning that battle they turned and ran.
The feather thing is about people asking for a sign then seeing a white feather so I think it's when it's something like that rather than just spotting them in the street

Elegran Sat 04-Jun-16 16:22:38

If you mean the angel of Mons, practical the story is a perfect example of how legends are born and become "truth" when people want and need to believe in them in times of stress.

On 22–23 August 1914, the first major engagement of the British Expeditionary Force in the First World War occurred at the Battle of Mons. Advancing German forces were thrown back by heavily outnumbered British troops, who suffered heavy casualties and, being outflanked, were forced into rapid retreat the next day. The retreat and the battle were rapidly perceived by the British public as being a key moment in the war. Despite the censorship going on in Britain at the time, this battle was the first indication the British public had that defeating Germany would not be as easy as some had thought.

On 29 September 1914 Welsh author Arthur Machen published a short story entitled "The Bowmen" in the London newspaper The Evening News, inspired by accounts that he had read of the fighting at Mons and an idea he had had soon after the battle. He set his story at the time of the retreat from the Battle of Mons in August 1914. The story described phantom bowmen from the Battle of Agincourt summoned by a soldier calling on St. George, destroying a German host.

Machen's story was not, however, labelled as fiction

A month or two later Machen received requests from the editors of parish magazines to reprint the story, which were granted. In the introduction to The Bowmen and Other Legends of the War (1915) Machen relates that an unnamed priest, the editor of one of these magazines, subsequently wrote to him asking if he would allow the story to be reprinted in pamphlet form, and if he would write a short preface giving sources for the story. Machen replied that they were welcome to reprint but he could not give any sources for the story since he had none. The priest replied that Machen must be mistaken, that the "facts" of the story must be true, and that Machen had just elaborated on a true account.

As Machen later said:
"It seemed that my light fiction had been accepted by the congregation of this particular church as the solidest of facts; and it was then that it began to dawn on me that if I had failed in the art of letters, I had succeeded, unwittingly, in the art of deceit. This happened, I should think, some time in April, and the snowball of rumour that was then set rolling has been rolling ever since, growing bigger and bigger, till it is now swollen to a monstrous size."
"— Arthur Machen, Introduction to The Bowmen and Other Legends of the War"

Around that time variations of the story began to appear, told as authentic histories, including an account that told how the corpses of German soldiers had been found on the battlefield with arrow wounds.

In "The Bowmen" Machen's soldier saw "a long line of shapes, with a shining about them." A Mr. A.P. Sinnett, writing in the Occult Review, stated that "those who could see said they saw 'a row of shining beings' between the two armies." This led Machen to suggest that the bowmen of his story had become the Angels of Mons

rosesarered Sat 04-Jun-16 16:42:48

Interesting Elegran I knew that the Mons angel was a fiction, but didn't know the source of it.

Elegran Sat 04-Jun-16 18:04:32

All I knew was that it was fiction until I searched the net for information - WW1 soldiers who were actually there at Mons, like my grandfather for instance, denied ever seeing any angels but remembered very clearly having to withdraw in the face of superior numbers.

I think the author's account of being asked for his sources, even after stating categorically that it was fiction, is a measure of how strong a hold a legend can take when it describes what people WANT to be true.

If you search for information on a subject, and trace a story back to the source, you stand a better chance of proving or disproving it than you do by just firing "Tis!" and "Tisn't!" back and forth.

practical Sat 04-Jun-16 22:09:10

Elegran did some of your grandfathers troop say they saw them or do you mean withdraw in the face of superior numbers in the german army ? I am interested that someone you knew was there

Elegran Sun 05-Jun-16 08:50:54

Grandfather said that he only heard about it afterwards, and not from any of his mates. I suppose it is just possible that some may have seen them but didn't like to say so in case they were thought to be a bit mad, but given that author Arthur Machen published a fictional story which he himself was surprised to see "took off" as real, I don't think they did. I suspect that they were fully occupied with trying to fight off the German attack and had no time to look up for angels.

On withdrawing - the British troops fought bravely, were heavily outnumbered and suffered heavy casualties and, being outflanked, were forced into rapid retreat the next day.

Elegran Sun 05-Jun-16 08:54:10

I think a lot of us in our seventies had grandfathers who fought in the first world war, including at the battle of Mons. Mine wouldn't speak much about what he saw and experienced in Flanders - it was all too raw.

thatbags Sun 05-Jun-16 09:08:55

I think not speaking of the horrors of trench warfare is how many soldiers coped in later life. My great uncle, a native of Addingham in Yorkshire, was restless as a young man and wanted to travel and see foreign parts. After his time in the trenches he always said in his dry Yorkshire way that he realised quiet old Addingham "weren't so bad". He had no inclination to travel for the rest of his life.

practical Sun 05-Jun-16 09:31:23

my granddad died in the war so no information there. My great uncle who had moved to Canada died in the war as well.
I guess being as your granddad was there and knew nothing of it proves that is a fiction story then Elegran

Elegran Sun 05-Jun-16 09:43:50

I guess it does, but the evidence of the author of the fictional story which was taken up as truth is an even better proof. It provides a realistic beginning for the legend at a time when knowledge of how badly the war was going was just starting to be realised, and this kind of "angels are looking out for our boys" provided some comfort.

I think that when things are stressful, people WANT there to be a source of support and comfort - so they see one.

rosesarered Sun 05-Jun-16 10:29:28

Exactly Elegran

granjura Sun 05-Jun-16 17:11:04

Nelliemoser- sorry missed your earlier post.

Yes, it is. No it isn't. Unless like Van Gogh you drunk it by the litre with turps... as he did.

It's a long story, but absinthe was banned because of a conspiracy by the wine growers.

obieone Sun 05-Jun-16 17:21:20

Yes, but no personal experience.

obieone Sun 05-Jun-16 17:21:53

As far as I know.

Cherrytree59 Sun 05-Jun-16 17:40:51

Yes pracitcal it was Gloria Huniford talking about her daughter and Angels.
She mentioned that she had a Parking Angel.
One very fraught day I did what Gloria said and I asked my angel for help. He/she duly obliged.
I said 'Thank you very much Angel'
My angel never fails me in a parking situation I always get a space.
If I'm out with my DH, Sister or DD they always ask me if I've got my Parking Angel with me !
I do feel a bit mercenary for asking an Angel for such a trivial thing.
But I always say Thank you

practical Sun 05-Jun-16 22:35:00

Cherrytree I can remember Gloria saying about parking angels but until you said I couldn't remember who said it but she did say it's ok to ask. They used to have a woman on this morning who could see the angels of people I think it was the woman from Ireland.

marmar01 Sun 05-Jun-16 22:40:51

yes i believe in angels and fairy's.( i have regularly found 20 pence pieces in strange places and i feel sure its a sign)

Disgruntled Mon 06-Jun-16 07:58:41

I'm really wary about posting this, but yes, I do, cos I've seen them. I used to be the most cynical person in the world, but have been changing. I work with energies (Reiki and Seichem) and the first time I saw one I was gobsmacked, awed, thrilled, amazed. It/he was huge and I said to the client "Do you have a dangerous job?" He said "Yes, I clear asbestos from buildings, and I drive like a f**** lunatic" "Oh!" says I, "I think your Guardian Angel is on red alert."
More recently I do ask for help from my parking angel, my driving angel and my directions angel. They all help.

Amira15 Mon 06-Jun-16 10:35:35

I'm not a religious person but I do believe in angels !

practical Mon 06-Jun-16 13:01:33

Disgruntled don't be wary about posting things
luckily this thread is mostly peaceful. I have done Reiki one but the Reiki Master wasn't very nice so I didn't go for 2 and 3.
I am envious about the angel I wish I could see one.

practical Mon 06-Jun-16 13:03:00

marmar01 I find feathers where I don't expect to and usually when needed

Falconbird Mon 06-Jun-16 13:43:19

I would like to be sensible and level headed and say no - but I think I do believe in angels. smile

Disgruntled Mon 06-Jun-16 14:12:05

Oh, thanks, Practical. What a shame about the Reiki Master. I love it and find it fascinating. I've just treated someone who said she saw golden orbs on either side of her, a purple light going to her forehead, green lights rippling from side to side of her body - and this was her first session.

practical Mon 06-Jun-16 14:54:03

Disgruntled
I went to see an homeopathic practitioner about migraine and she said will do some healing she was wonderful while she held her hand above my face I could see my 3rd eye to the left and seemed sticky. I did fall off a ladder when I was 11 and I think this was showing me why I couldn't progress as much as I'd like. She moved house, I wished she hadn't because I think I could have made progress there.

practical Mon 06-Jun-16 14:56:23

Falconbird Believe it's much more fun than being sensible and level headed smile